I'm of two minds about this drabble. First, I love, once again, the atmosphere. Particularly the first and the last paragraph, because they make shivers crawl down my spine. But. I disagree with this: A frightened Gryffindor: the ultimate oxymoron. Which kind of ruined the impact for me when I first read it, though admittedly it didn't on second read. I don't know how to interpret this, because certainly, after some thought, I can see Lee thinking that. Only I disagree with him. If bravery is one of the Gryffindor's major characteristics, well, I think bravery isn't not being afraid. I think there's nothing brave about not being afraid. Being brave is being scared witless about something, and still do it. Or at least, that's my take on it. I don't see how doing something you're not scared about is brave. It doesn't cost you any effort, does it? That's why, for me, Ron is perhaps the ultimate image of a Gryffindor. Ron's scared of a lot of things, but he'll still do it, especially if he can help his friends with it. That's why I can see why Neville is definitely a Gryffindor. Or, at least, I suppose there are many ways in which to be a Gryffindor, in which to be brave. But to me, there's no bravery without fear. Then again, as I said, upon second read, I can definitely see Lee thinking this, especially if he hangs around a lot with the twins.
The Curves Of Your Lips Rewrite History
I'm having a serious hate/love relationship with this series of drabbles. Don't hate me for it -- I suppose I'll just never turn into a Harry/Draco shipper, and that makes it hard for me to appreciate a H/D story.
I love 'take one'. I do, I do, I do. It's cold and bitter and ironic and cruel. And I love that. Because after reading innumerable stories about the One True Love -- that's the kind of thing that hits me right where I live. Because it isn't what I expect, and somehow that twists the knife further. Draco imaniging Harry on his knees and ending up being the one doing the kneeling -- and Harry getting killed anyway. That's just chilling, and I love it. And I love the way you paralleled the different drabbles -- every subtle little change, shift, and every similarity -- very well done. But see, I would have liked it so much better, had 'take three' been 'take one' and vice versa. Because, for me, you start from a drabble that chills me and moves me and surprises me, and move on to a drabble which depicts the obvious. I find it rather ironic, that I'm saying this -- from a canon POV, this is absolutely not true. You're moving from the canon ideal to the fanon ideal. Had I never read a fanfic in my life, this would work perfectly. But I have, and I've read many of them, and to me the last seems the more obvious of possibilities. Had the order been reversed, my heart would have plummeted at the last one, but I would have loved it just for that.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat/Once More/I Will Not Forsake
I love this. I really, really love this. Percy's characterisation makes me want to cry for him. I love him: how he's exhausted, and stubborn, and manipulative, and how he's so unfit for his job. He's wrong, somehow, so very, very wrong, and yet so very right in the situation he's in -- a situation he doesn't belong in. When he starts using his brothers against Lee -- oh God -- and then later, when he says he expects to see his brothers by Lee's side every time he sees him, and that's why he continues giving him information. These bits seriously make me swallow. It makes me want to hit Percy, and shake him, and hug him all at once, because what else can he do, what else can he be?
I do like Lee and Flint, too. With Lee, I like how war becomes routine to him, how he can't imagine anything being, how he lives it, how it's his entire world for him. And he's actually being the impartial one, here, which in a way also means that he's no more than a passive participant -- there is nothing he can actually do, which makes him feel like a victim of the situation, a helpless puppet desperately trying to hold on. And at the same time, so much more than that, because he does try to do something by offering people the truth. But whether this will help, he won't know, because he can't see people's reactions when they read his articles in the newspaper. I like how he stops having nightmares, because it's just routine, after all, and how he prefers the more straightforward and less tiring Flint. It's like he doesn't have the strength anymore to face Percy, not really. Not because of the twins, and not because of Percy's constant insistence he comes to their side.
And Flint. I like how you describe 'Before' -- it has a nice ring to it, and it fits. And this sentence:
You pick your side, and hope you've picked the winning side, and do everything you can to make your side the winning side.
That last bit, where passivity suddenly changes into something active, into something you can do; and how it emphasises that it's not about picking the right side, not if you actually make a side win, how it's just about winning -- very, very nice.
And this: In this war, so far, they are on the winning side, but Marcus doesn't really feel it.
It's routine for him, like it is for Jordan, and yet it's very different at the same time. It's like Lee lives inside the war, lives only through it, and yet, at the same time, keeps a careful distance, while Flint sees it more from the outside, like it's something he can't quite imagine, something that's there and he can't even bother to find odd, it's just there, and he's actually right in the middle of it. And he still gives Lee his information, like it's all happening around him, but it doesn't really hit him.
I'm going to stop about this now, because I sense I'm not making any bloody sense anymore. :-D
Just this last little thing:
It's like a dance, and they are all going through the steps they have been meant to go through since birth.
Yes. That's exactly it. That's exactly the feeling you bring across in the three drabbles. They are, all three of them, in a place they don't quite belong, but at the same time, a place they're meant to be in.
If I have to choose a favourite amongst your writings, this is definitely it.
Okay, dude, do you know how much I love it that you loved this? :D
I managed to put a lot of my ideas about war (and especially the upcoming war in HP) into them, about how the side people will be on will be largely defined by which side their parents were on, and I'm not explaining this very well, but this drabble has some of that as well, how the first war is still affecting life in the Wizarding World very profoundly in many ways, and that's going to have a large impact on how the second war will play out. (Again, elaboration available upon request.)
And I have an unholy love for all three of them in these drabbles, because Marcus and Percy are kind of two sides of the same coin, they both kind of fell into their roles on their respective sides, except Marcus is a lot more realistic about it, whereas Percy's still ... trying very hard to convince others that his side is the "right" side, because by doing so he'll convince himself of that as well. And he's manipulative and sees things in black and white (I've always believed Percy had a rather large Slytherin streak in him) and he knows it's not right to be using his late brothers as a way to almost blackmail Lee, but in Percy's world, the end justifies the means.
But Percy's also the only one of them who still really feels anything, because Marcus doesn't really believe in Voldemort's cause, he just fights for it because it is after all the side he picked (and did he really have much of a choice?) and now he has to follow through, no matter how little he cares or how tired he is.
And Lee, my Lee (you'll notice an extraodrinary amount of Lee-love with me, just to warn you), outside it all, but surrounded by it (as one is, at the eye of the storm) and no longer able to feel anything, and oh. Wibble.
That last bit, where passivity suddenly changes into something active, into something you can do; and how it emphasises that it's not about picking the right side, not if you actually make a side win, how it's just about winning -- very, very nice.
Hee, thanks! It's also about how the "right" side, in the end, is usually just the side that wins, which isn't necessarily my view on war, but when I write war!fic, my cynical side tends to take over.
Yes. That's exactly it. That's exactly the feeling you bring across in the three drabbles. They are, all three of them, in a place they don't quite belong, but at the same time, a place they're meant to be in.
Which is exactly what I hoped to bring across! :D The idea that, really, this whole "free will" thing often takes a back seat to who you're born to and how you grow up. (Nature vs nurture, which is a bit of a theme in my writing sometimes, I think.)
If I have to choose a favourite amongst your writings, this is definitely it.
Oooh, thank you! (Although I must ask, have you read these? I'm not entirely proud of all of them, but as a whole, I like them, and I still rather like some of the individual ones. And there's a lot of the same themes and ideas that are in these three drabbles.)
Do explain, though I think I see what you mean. The same people from the first war are still alive and kicking, and then different camps still exist, even if the (ex-)DEs are being more subtle about it, or even denying their involvement. Inside their own house, they're still either for or against Voldie, and this is, of course, influencing their kids. A racist's kid is far more likely to grow up being a racist, because s/he's never heard anything else, because his/her parents told him/her it was right this way. It doesn't necessarily have to be so, of course, but there's more chance for it to happen. Moreover, once they're inside one camp, where could they go? They can't escape, unless they cut the family bonds, a very hard choice to make. And as you show in requiem, to go where? They're not very likely to be welcomed with open arms on the other side.
I can't help wondering what the influence of the war against Grindelwald had upon the first war with Voldemort -- were the same parties, or at least their offspring, involved?
I've always believed Percy had a rather large Slytherin streak in him
This has always confused me. There are quite a few characters who seem to be missorted upon first glance. Hermione, for instance, seems to be the perfect Ravenclaw, while Neville seems more fitted for Hufflepuff. Slowly, however, we're discovering why they were Sorted into Gryffindor. It all starts making sense.
And then there's Percy. Percy's largest Slytherin characteristic is his ambition (do you seen any others in canon?), but then, he has that aplenty. And oh, yes, he seems to have gone over to, well, a semi-dark side, betraying his family in the process (though I'm not quite convinced as I've explained once before, if you remember), which in JKR's world seems to be a Slytherin thing to do. But. She even has him looking through books about Prefects who want to gain power, for goodness' sake. Can you scream Slytherin even louder? So I'm really waiting for the other shoe to drop. What is it that makes Percy a Gryffindor? There has to be a reason, and I don't think we've seen it yet. And I'm wondering if we ever will. I do hope so.
I have now. :-) I'd planned on reading them, then didn't get around to it. Though I read them just after you commented back. When I said Lather, … was my favourite amongst your writings, I meant among those I'd read. Sorry 'bout the confusion. I'd read all the HP drabbles which were under the same link. Though, having read you Lee/Marcus war drabbles, Lather, … is still my favourite. It's Percy. I do like Lee, and your Marcus, but your Percy just twisted something in me in a way Lee and Marcus can't quite manage. Which doesn't mean that I don't love them anyway, it just means that I really, really love your Percy.
About your Lee/Marcus war!drabbles.
I like requiem very much, and how it shows what it's like for Marcus. How he's not allowed to mourn for those he cares for, because everybody just considers him a Slytherin anyway. There's something very empty, very routinely and uncaring about that drabble -- especially when he starts contemplating his own funeral -- and it works. I also like how only one of the twins' body shows, like some irony of fate.
In perspective, I like how you let Lee turn something which seems like one of Marcus's faults turn into something positive. Or no, that's not quite right -- how you show that despite the fact that Lee doesn't like the fact that Marcus cheats, how underneath it all, he really thinks Marcus is a good player. It takes Lee from someone who thoughtlessly bashes the Slytherins to someone with a keen sense of observation, and someone who's at least willing to admit to himself what the talents of his opponents are, and at the same time shows Marcus really is skilled -- all in one sentence.
And I like how you show that they are so far into the war that it all doesn't matter anymore, that they see everything through the eyes of the war -- how what happened at Quidditch doesn't really matter anymore, just what happens during the war.
In personal, I like the last sentence, though I like it in relationship to the rest. There's something very slow and detached about the drabble, as though even Marcus is sort of experiencing it from a distance, almost reacting on instinct -- or on routine. Then, that last sentence hits hard.
I like pretty boy 'cause it's hot. :-) It is. And I love the last sentence, because despite the comparisons between Lee and the kids he sees before him, I so totally did not see that coming, and it hit me right where I live.
I like how Jordan's dreads -- and his scars -- seem to be some sort of metaphor for all that's been lost between Lee and Marcus. How their absence seems to say: it's not there anymore. It comes through strongest in sometimes, of course, but you use this throughout and I really like that.
In time, Neville's remark made me snicker. And though the remark is not only humorous, it does break the seriousness of the story somewhat, and actually accentuates what comes after. Marcus waking up with Lee lying on top of him is just sweet, and hopeful.
Sometimes, Lee leans against him as they're leaning over the desk. Marcus supposes it's a start. Awww.
He's not allowed to go out in the field anymore, and it's hard to really focus on maps, so instead, he focusses on Marcus.
I like that, though I can't really explain why. It's that "meant to be" feeling again, I suppose.
And I love the ending (war). How Marcus wants to make up for his mistakes -- and in a way it's all he's got on the side of light, all that makes him respectable: the fact that he is a good strategist. And now he lost. And all those people he's not allowed to mourn.
I like how Lee doesn't allow Marcus to be gentle. I'm glad you did it like this, because I would have felt cheated otherwise -- they're not some sort of sappy romance, they just… are. I like Marcus's "well, he's got a point" for that reason, 'cause it may be clumsy and wrong, but it's just that which makes the situation perfect. Or perfectly imperfect. :-) And I like the contract of how it's at the same time different and the same, how it seems out of time -- it seems to say that they have changed, and yet, deep down, they're still the same people.
I don't know if you can change mistakes easily, or if you even care, but if you do, I picked up the following: In perspective He looks the exactly the same as the last time Lee saw him: back straight, neck and shoulders tense, every inch the Quidditch Captain.
He does what he's good at, watching and reporting, calling things as he sees them no matter whether people liked what he said. (I only think that should be a present tense…)
He called Flint on his faults, and earning himself the eternal hatred of most of Slytherin House
In time: then shakes his head at Marcus and mutters something about how corruption and filthy habits. (There seems to be a bit missing.)
Sorry, can't seem to keep myself from picking up stuff like that. Maybe because I make that kind of mistakes all the time myself. :-)
In time, Neville's remark made me snicker. And though the remark is not only humorous, it does break the seriousness of the story somewhat, and actually accentuates what comes after.
Oh, cool, I hadn't thought of that, but I did think that Neville needed to put in an appearance to sort of break up this impression that everything in this story 'verse is doom and gloom. Also, I like Neville, and I think he'd be a very good doctor, and quite competent even in the face of all the horridly wounded that would stream in during a war, I think.
Marcus waking up with Lee lying on top of him is just sweet, and hopeful.
Isn't it? For reasons I still cannot figure out, I do love this pairing, despite its absolute groundlessness.
How Marcus wants to make up for his mistakes -- and in a way it's all he's got on the side of light, all that makes him respectable: the fact that he is a good strategist. And now he lost. And all those people he's not allowed to mourn.
Exactly! I really do feel bad for Marcus for what I put him through in this drabble series, because yes, Lee's the one who got raped and mutilated (don't know if I mention it in the drabbles, but Bole cost him a finger as well, and a lot of scars), but Marcus is the one who takes his job personal, no matter what he tells himself, because every time one of his people dies, he knows he'll be held responsible, and he's holding himself responsible, too.
I like how Lee doesn't allow Marcus to be gentle. I'm glad you did it like this, because I would have felt cheated otherwise -- they're not some sort of sappy romance, they just… are.
Which is exactly what I love about them. They're a completely impossible pair, and in this 'verse especially they're both too hopelessly damaged to ever have a healthy relationship after the war, I think, but right now, they're right for each other.
I like Marcus's "well, he's got a point" for that reason, 'cause it may be clumsy and wrong, but it's just that which makes the situation perfect.
I agonised over that for so long, because I wanted to make it clear that Marcus wasn't saying that Lee deserved to be raped because of what happened between them at Hogwarts, but that he's not seeing the difference between what Bole did to Lee and what he did to Lee, that he feels guilty, because at this point, he's already so used to feeling responsible for every bad thing that happens that it's hard to stop.
And thanks for the pointers on typos and spelling mistakes, will fix those on the next update!
Hey, no problem, just checking. :) I tend to put a lot of my ideas on the War especially into various drabbles and stories, so I tend to reference those rather than try to explain in non-fic. <g>
I like requiem very much, and how it shows what it's like for Marcus. How he's not allowed to mourn for those he cares for, because everybody just considers him a Slytherin anyway. There's something very empty, very routinely and uncaring about that drabble -- especially when he starts contemplating his own funeral -- and it works. I also like how only one of the twins' body shows, like some irony of fate.
Hee! Glad you liked that. :) And yeah, this was one of the things I've written where the idea of the House Prejudices being some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy during the Second War really comes out.
Or no, that's not quite right -- how you show that despite the fact that Lee doesn't like the fact that Marcus cheats, how underneath it all, he really thinks Marcus is a good player.
Which I think is actually the main reason he's quite as nasty as he is about calling Marcus on his faults during the games, because he thinks Marcus is a great player, pro material, but this cheating shit won't fly in the pro league, and to Lee, it just makes no sense.
It takes Lee from someone who thoughtlessly bashes the Slytherins to someone with a keen sense of observation, and someone who's at least willing to admit to himself what the talents of his opponents are, and at the same time shows Marcus really is skilled -- all in one sentence.
Awww, thanks! Also, tangent: I tend to have two mutually exclusive theories about Lee's (im)partiality. The first is the one presented in this story, that he's mostly impartial but just gets a bit carried away when someone commits a foul, especially when that someone is a potentially talented player--and really, Marcus must have some talent beyond cheating, or why else would he be Captain?
The second is that Lee gets away with being rather biased because he's really smart and good at Transfigurations and therefore he's McGonnagal's favourite.
I like pretty boy 'cause it's hot. :-) It is.
Good. It was supposed to be. :D Random bit of hotness in the middle of everything else, but then I couldn't resist adding some cynisism.
And I love the last sentence, because despite the comparisons between Lee and the kids he sees before him, I so totally did not see that coming, and it hit me right where I live.
*deep breath* Right, well, I think I should start with a few disclaimerish warning things. Point one: I'm going to do this in English, as I've a difficult time discussing HP in Dutch in writing, but I'll likely be throwing in Dutch terms here and there because there's not always English equivalents for the terms. Point two: I'm a history geek. WW2 is one of my areas of interest, if you will. Sometimes, I get carried away. Point three: First War and Second War refer to the first and second (current) war against Voldemort. The Grindewald era will be mentioned separately. WW1 and WW2 should be self-explanatory. :)
Right, that said ...
The thing I've always missed in HP post-war fanfic is the sense of consequences the Second War will have. I think we've seen some of the consequences the first War had, with the apparent assumptions about Slytherins all being future Death Eaters (and I could get started on the House Prejudice, but that's another comment, I think), the people who've been locked up for the last fifteen years without any sort of trial (Sirius!), the people who've never been locked up even though everyone knows/"knows" they were involved with Voldemort, and as you mention, the latter are now raising children of their own.
(Side note: I don't know that I'd compare the anti-Muggle sentiments with racism per se. I can sort of see the point of people who want to stay hidden from Muggles--it does pose a danger--and Muggleborns are the biggest link between Wizarding World and Muggle society, which I think is one of the reasons why Muggleborns are near-brainwashed at Hogwarts, but that's a tangent I've gone on in list posts, which I'll try and remember to cut&paste for you. Anyway, I think a better comparison would be the situation in Israel/Palestina. Again, shall elaborate in different comment.)
They're not very likely to be welcomed with open arms on the other side.
Exactly, exactly, and this is where the Second War = WW2 parallel becomes really clear to me, because yeah, nazi parallels and all, but it's the subtle things that are a lot more significant to me. Part of the reason why Hitler was able to gain control was that he latched on to the resentment the German people felt at how hard they were punished after WW1. I can see a lot of similarities between the inter-WW era and the time between the Voldemort Wars. There's still a lot of resentment, on both sides, and I think also shame--see for example Fudge's denial of Voldemort's return, which to me suggests that This Is Not Something He Wants To Think About, for various reason. But I think I'm reaching a bit, there.
Anyway, right now, the Wizarding World is still really feeling the aftershocks of the First War, but it's all hidden, people try to pretend life just went on, but underneath, there's still a lot of resentment and hatred, in part I think because of the lack of proper trials. I mean, yeah, I understand that in the middle of a war, there's not always time to properly persecute people that need to be taken off the streets immediately, but why not after the war? What the Wizarding World needs, I think, is the equivalent of the Truth Comission in South Africa, although it's now far too late for that. Perhaps after the Second War, though.
Which, finally, brings me to my point. What I was trying to explore in this drabble trilogy, especially in Once More and I Will Not Forsake, was the idea that because the wounds of the First War are still festering under the surface of Wizarding Society, most everyone is almost literally born to their place in the Second War. Marcus is on Voldemort's side not necessarily because he truly believes in Voldemort's cause, but because his father was, and Flint Sr spent most of Marcus' childhood and teenaged years as a bitter man, convinced that he'd been cheated out of things (social position, money) that were rightfully his if it hadn't been for the First War, and it's difficult to go against that sort of thing even when one is an adult, I think. Percy, OTOH, is in a way upholding his family name--he "takes it almost as a personal affront", tries to be his father, in a way, almost like Marcus is trying to be/become what his father never was. And I'm rambling now.
Getting back to what I said in the beginning, many HP fanfics mention a backlash and paranoia against, say, Draco, but I never see the more subtle consequences that WW2 had parallelled in the fanfic discriptions of the aftermath of the Second War: the paranoia, the "nazi whores," head shaven and locked in cages, the accusations of collaboration that are still affecting people in Belgium even today, etc. I think perhaps (and this is me playing amateur antropologist, but) it's that very few HP fanfic writers are from continental Europe, and they forget that there's a difference between fighting a war somewhere else, or even having your own cities bombed by airplanes, and actually having been occupied by the enemy, which, effectively is what the Wizarding World was/will be under Voldemort.
I can't help wondering what the influence of the war against Grindelwald had upon the first war with Voldemort -- were the same parties, or at least their offspring, involved?
This is purely my own opinion, and I don't know that I've any basis for this, but I've a feeling that Grindewald was much more an "old school" World-dominating Wizard Wannabe, that he worked on his own with perhaps a handful of minions, but not playing on people's prejudices and fears the way Voldemort did. Grindewald, I think, just wanted power.
Slowly, however, we're discovering why they were Sorted into Gryffindor. It all starts making sense.
Especially since OP, I personally think the Hat considers it more important where you want to be sorted than where you should be sorted, as it were. It's not so much about where your talents lie, but about what's important to you.
And oh, yes, he seems to have gone over to, well, a semi-dark side, betraying his family in the process (though I'm not quite convinced as I've explained once before, if you remember), which in JKR's world seems to be a Slytherin thing to do. But. She even has him looking through books about Prefects who want to gain power, for goodness' sake. Can you scream Slytherin even louder? So I'm really waiting for the other shoe to drop. What is it that makes Percy a Gryffindor?
Well, see above, but also, I think going against your family to do what you think is right takes a great deal of courage, and I do think that Percy believes (believed?) that what he is (was) doing is (was) right. Which is why I'm so afraid of Percy. I've always liked him well enough, but I had this undetermined, uneasy feeling about him, and then from about a third through GF, it occured to me that Percy would make the perfect unknwling pawn for Voldemort. "Ich habe es nicht gewust," indeed. (And I'm sure my spelling of that was shite, but there you go.)
Right. C&P of some posts I made to a HP discussion list I'm on, regarding the whole Muggleborn brainwashing thing:
I can't remember if we've brought this up on-list before, or if this was just in private e-mail, but it seems to me that Muggleborns really sort of get the short end of the stick in the Hogwarts school system. Take, for example, Hermione. At the age of eleven, she was told she was a witch, and went off to Hogwarts. Since then, she's only studied magic, which means she's missed six years of maths, various sciences, English, plus possibly French or other languages.
What if she, or any of the other Muggleborns, wanted to go to university? For that matter, what if any pureblood witch or wizard wanted to go to university? And I don't think that *not* letting one's child go to Hogwarts is an option, because untrained wizards are a liability, what with the spontaneous magic.
So basically, being a Muggleborn witch or wizard means that not only are you sent away from your family for most of the year from the time you're eleven, but you're also almost irrevocably bound to the wizarding world, because you're used to using magic all the time, you're disconnected from the Muggle world, I should think, after spending ten months out of a year immersed in the wizarding world, and you've pretty much no choice but to get a job (and thus, build up a life) in the wizarding world, because you don't have the education necessary in the Muggle world.
I suspect that, conciously or not, this system is kept in place in part to almost assimilate Muggleborns into the wizarding world, and thus to keep the wizarding world very much seperate from the Muggle one. This is also evident, for example, in the fact that the Weasleys live relatively near a Muggle town, but don't ever seem to have wandered into it (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/atlas-b-burrow.html), despite Mr Weasley's supposed interest in All Things Muggle.
And quite frankly, I don't know how happy I'd be to send any of my hypothetical children to Hogwarts. I mean, what sort of teacher sents four *eleven-year old children* out into a forest they've previously declared incredibly dangerous? And why didn't *any* of the parents protest Umbridge's decrees, or even her corporal punishment of students?
Not to mention that Snape fellow, whom I personally would've liked to have for a teacher, except for that nasty habit he has of putting people down as persons for not being good at Potions. I mean, seriously, people, considering that there only appear to be about a dozen teaching posts at Hogwarts (and thus in the UK and Ireland), one would think they'd be able to get a teacher who actually, you know, *likes* *teaching*. (And doesn't carry a rather childish grudge against the son of the bloke who bullied him in school, but that's another rant for another time.)
Seriously, what sane person would even consider sending their child to this school?
(Second post, responding to people ...)
My impression is that there's a lot of measures in place that stop Muggleborns from hanging onto their ... well, their heritage, for lack of a better word. Electronics don't work on Hogwarts Grounds [1], so TVs, computers, radios, even walkmans are right out. The only way they have to keep up with what's happening in the Muggle world would be for their parents to owl (or maybe mail, but there's no canon mention of the Royal Mail delivering to Hogwarts in any way) them newspapers.
And even if they manage to keep up with current events, what about pop culture? Even if they're not the type to actually go along with pop culture, being (kept) completely ignorant about it is another thing entirely. For ten months a year (nine if you also discount Christmas and Easter holidays), they're effectively in another world, wearing Hogwarts robes during the school hours, and likely also outside them, because why bother changing into Muggle clothes that will make them stand out even more from their pureblood schoolmates?
And what about their friends back home? Surely they'll wonder why these kids are suddenly writing them letters on parchment, instead of plain paper? Surely they'll wonder what kind of school doesn't allow newspapers, walkmans, teen magazines, etc. I imagine it's an incredible struggle to keep one's Muggle friends over the summer, when they're all talking about things you're more or less clueless about, and you can't share much of anything about your own school life.
And then, to revisit the issue of the actual schooling, there's the issue that at age eleven, you're pretty much forced to give up the world you know and grew up in, all your friends, your family, because after those seven years, it's very difficult to blend back into Muggle society. I think Hermione could do it, studying Muggle subjects over the summer, and taking her O- and A-level exams like the homeschooled kids [2], possibly a year later for her A-levels, so she can go to uni if she wants to. But I don't think a lot of the other Muggleborn children could or would.
(Snip someone else's ranting about the lack of things like bics and stuff at Hogwarts.)
Especially since there's no good reason why they shouldn't! I mean, I could understand if it was a matter of preferring magical solutions to problems over the Muggle (technical) solutions to the same problems. (E.g. cars vs Apparating/the Floo Network/Portkeys, except they *do* have cars.) But there's nothing magical about Quills and parchment, so why not, at the very least, switch to fountain pens and paper?
It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why hang on to the robes (and hats!) like that? Why the quills and parchment? The electronics at Hogwarts, fair enough if that's really because of all the magic, but surely if they tried they could come up with counterspells for that? Why haven't they? Why the insistence on the one, centralised wizard (boarding) school for the entire UK and Ireland, rather than a number of smaller ones that would allow children to actually grow up with their families, be they Wizard or Muggle? [3]
The more I think about it, the more the wizarding world strikes me as very cult-ish, with Hogwarts as its main brainwashing tool. I know, I know, I'm probably overreacting and/or reading things into this that JKR never intended to put in, but still.
[1] From the Lexicon: <<"All those substitutes for magic Muggles use - electricity, computers, and radar, and all those things - they all go haywire around Hogwarts, there's too much magic in the air." -- Hermione Granger, who has read Hogwarts, A History>> (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts_outside.html)
They don't quote a source on this, but as it's an actual quote, I'm assuming it's in the books somewhere. Side note: why is Hermione talking about Muggles as if they're some strange, unknown people? She's Muggleborn, for fuck's sake. **frowns**
[2] While homeschooling isn't as widespread in the UK as it is in the US, it is legal (http://www.geocities.com/sueincyprus/). Obviously, Muggle parents of Wizard children can't claim to their neighbours that their children are homeschooled, but I'm sure the Ministry could arrange for Muggleborns to take their exams as homeschooled children. Whether they'd *want* to is another thing, of course.
[3] All right, so I have issues with boarding schools in general, thanks to my mum's stories about her boarding school years and her fervent opposition to the very *thought* of sending any of her children to one. And my mother was *sixteen*, not *eleven* when she first went there. It just boggles my mind how children grow up away from their parents in the WW--*all* of them; this entire society is made up of people who spent most of their formative years away from their families. I'm twenty-two, and I miss my family if I don't see them for three *weeks*, let alone three *months*.
(And then there's this, in response to someone's response again ...)
(Someone made a point about how the older generations are the majority in the Wizarding World, because of their age spans.)
That's actually a very good point indeed. And it's not just the sheer number of "older" generations, but also the fact that they're around for a lot longer. The younger generations have to fight traditions going back a lot further, so the progress/evolution is a lot slower than in the Muggle world.
(And then a point about how there'll be more younger wizards and less older ones after the Second War.)
Oooh, that'd be interesting to see. And after the second war, it won't just be the numbers that count, but also the fact that it will be Harry (and possibly his generation) that defeated Voldemort, which would give him a lot more influence than previous generations had.
(Snip, and then on the subject of how many students there are at Hogwarts ...)
One thousand, actually, I think JKR said. The vast majority of the evidence in the actual books points towards there being about 280 students. (See http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts_howmany.html for a list of evidence.)
One could argue that the Trio and their year are the last children born during the First War, and that subsequent years may very well have more than 70 students per year. Even then, it would take until at least the Trio's sixth, probably seventh year before the population of Hogwarts would expand to 1,000 (again?). Plus, as the article above notes, there'd be all sorts of logistical problems with that number of students, not in the least with the teachers. (I made up a class schedule for a HP RPG I'm in, and even with the limited number of 280 students, most of these teachers are really damn busy.)
Er, . You're very right about the practical issues, though. Which isn't to say I don't still dislike the whole setup, but then, as you noted, I come form a completely different background. But really, why not just have the children floo in every morning, then?
Now, on the subject of Wizards Who Hate Muggleborns ("Wie zijn ze? Wat drijft hen?") and appropriate parallels therefore. :)
I don't think the comparison to racism is quite right, because while many racists have this fear of coloured people murdering them in their sleep or somesuch, that fear is quite unfounded, whereas I think that if you look at the witch hunts and the inquisition and all, I think Wizards have some reason to be weary of Muggles. And Muggleborns do present a risk, because can you really trust them to never say a word about the Wizarding World to their Muggle friends and relatives?
Which isn't to say that I don't think at least some of them (the Malfoys, for example) have taken the whole thing into the realm of race politics, but I think it's also just the tip of the iceberg of the prejudice that permeates the entirety of Wizarding society. To pick a rather blatant example, how about the House Elves? And how about the House Prejudice (see above re: people seeing all Slytherins as future Death Eaters)?
Or how about the brainwashing of the Muggleborns I talked about at length above? Sure, most wizards and witches frown on outright hatred such as Draco displays ("Mudblood"), but they still expect Muggleborns to completely assimilate into Wizarding society. Seamus is half-Muggle, but doesn't, apparently, know what football is, and Dean is the only one who's ever mentioned Muggle things in everyday conversation, and he's kind of seen as odd (harmless and fun despite the oddness, but odd nonetheless, I think) because of his West Ham poster.
Er, back to my point, I prefer to compare the Muggle/Wizard issue to the Israel/Palestine one, or perhaps even more accurately the situation in Northern Ireland, where the issue goes so far back the blame is really equally on both sides, or on neither side, but both sides are so afraid of each other, hate each other so much, that reconsiliation seems almost impossible.
And speaking of Northern Ireland, have I mentioned my pet IRA HP theory?
(And I think that's all for now. You really shouldn't get me started. <g>)
Then again, as I said, upon second read, I can definitely see Lee thinking this, especially if he hangs around a lot with the twins.
Which was most of why I wrote that, although there's also the fact that especially in drabbles, I tend to work with semi-charicatures of the Houses, which in the case of Gryffindor means "too stupid to be afraid". (Er, yes. I'm a real bitch about these things sometimes. <g>)
The Curves Of Your Lips Rewrite History
I think you make a good point about reversing the order, but like you said, it's a matter of whether the starting point is canon or fanon, and for me, the starting point should always be canon. I don't even see the last one as being fanon so much as it's the third possible outcome of things as they are now, but then I tend to try and forget anything I know of HP fanon in the first place and just work with what's in my head. But I see your point. :)
but then I tend to try and forget anything I know of HP fanon in the first place and just work with what's in my head.
I see your point, too, and I agree canon should be the starting point. However, most people sadly have been in fandom for a long time, and I, personally, simply can't switch off what I know about fanon while reading. *shrug* I hung out at hp100 for a while (and still do, occasionally), and it always struck me how it was usually those drabbles that stuck closest to canon that hit me most -- simply because I'm not expecting it anymore. People are wont to write sickly-sweet, angsty Remus/Sirius, for example, or Snape/Harry, for that matter, and when someone just happens not to, it hits me right where I live, because it hurts, but in a good way. So, er, yeah. Tangents. *ahem* ;-)
I, personally, simply can't switch off what I know about fanon while reading.
And I think I should perhaps think about that more when making editing choices, because I think a lot of people are influenced by fanon, and forgetting that will change the reaction I get from my audience, I think.
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From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
I'm of two minds about this drabble. First, I love, once again, the atmosphere. Particularly the first and the last paragraph, because they make shivers crawl down my spine.
But. I disagree with this: A frightened Gryffindor: the ultimate oxymoron. Which kind of ruined the impact for me when I first read it, though admittedly it didn't on second read. I don't know how to interpret this, because certainly, after some thought, I can see Lee thinking that. Only I disagree with him. If bravery is one of the Gryffindor's major characteristics, well, I think bravery isn't not being afraid. I think there's nothing brave about not being afraid. Being brave is being scared witless about something, and still do it. Or at least, that's my take on it. I don't see how doing something you're not scared about is brave. It doesn't cost you any effort, does it? That's why, for me, Ron is perhaps the ultimate image of a Gryffindor. Ron's scared of a lot of things, but he'll still do it, especially if he can help his friends with it. That's why I can see why Neville is definitely a Gryffindor. Or, at least, I suppose there are many ways in which to be a Gryffindor, in which to be brave. But to me, there's no bravery without fear.
Then again, as I said, upon second read, I can definitely see Lee thinking this, especially if he hangs around a lot with the twins.
The Curves Of Your Lips Rewrite History
I'm having a serious hate/love relationship with this series of drabbles. Don't hate me for it -- I suppose I'll just never turn into a Harry/Draco shipper, and that makes it hard for me to appreciate a H/D story.
I love 'take one'. I do, I do, I do. It's cold and bitter and ironic and cruel. And I love that. Because after reading innumerable stories about the One True Love -- that's the kind of thing that hits me right where I live. Because it isn't what I expect, and somehow that twists the knife further. Draco imaniging Harry on his knees and ending up being the one doing the kneeling -- and Harry getting killed anyway. That's just chilling, and I love it. And I love the way you paralleled the different drabbles -- every subtle little change, shift, and every similarity -- very well done. But see, I would have liked it so much better, had 'take three' been 'take one' and vice versa. Because, for me, you start from a drabble that chills me and moves me and surprises me, and move on to a drabble which depicts the obvious. I find it rather ironic, that I'm saying this -- from a canon POV, this is absolutely not true. You're moving from the canon ideal to the fanon ideal. Had I never read a fanfic in my life, this would work perfectly. But I have, and I've read many of them, and to me the last seems the more obvious of possibilities. Had the order been reversed, my heart would have plummeted at the last one, but I would have loved it just for that.
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Re: Feedback, at last...
I love this. I really, really love this. Percy's characterisation makes me want to cry for him. I love him: how he's exhausted, and stubborn, and manipulative, and how he's so unfit for his job. He's wrong, somehow, so very, very wrong, and yet so very right in the situation he's in -- a situation he doesn't belong in.
When he starts using his brothers against Lee -- oh God -- and then later, when he says he expects to see his brothers by Lee's side every time he sees him, and that's why he continues giving him information. These bits seriously make me swallow. It makes me want to hit Percy, and shake him, and hug him all at once, because what else can he do, what else can he be?
I do like Lee and Flint, too. With Lee, I like how war becomes routine to him, how he can't imagine anything being, how he lives it, how it's his entire world for him. And he's actually being the impartial one, here, which in a way also means that he's no more than a passive participant -- there is nothing he can actually do, which makes him feel like a victim of the situation, a helpless puppet desperately trying to hold on. And at the same time, so much more than that, because he does try to do something by offering people the truth. But whether this will help, he won't know, because he can't see people's reactions when they read his articles in the newspaper.
I like how he stops having nightmares, because it's just routine, after all, and how he prefers the more straightforward and less tiring Flint. It's like he doesn't have the strength anymore to face Percy, not really. Not because of the twins, and not because of Percy's constant insistence he comes to their side.
And Flint. I like how you describe 'Before' -- it has a nice ring to it, and it fits. And this sentence:
You pick your side, and hope you've picked the winning side, and do everything you can to make your side the winning side.
That last bit, where passivity suddenly changes into something active, into something you can do; and how it emphasises that it's not about picking the right side, not if you actually make a side win, how it's just about winning -- very, very nice.
And this:
In this war, so far, they are on the winning side, but Marcus doesn't really feel it.
It's routine for him, like it is for Jordan, and yet it's very different at the same time. It's like Lee lives inside the war, lives only through it, and yet, at the same time, keeps a careful distance, while Flint sees it more from the outside, like it's something he can't quite imagine, something that's there and he can't even bother to find odd, it's just there, and he's actually right in the middle of it. And he still gives Lee his information, like it's all happening around him, but it doesn't really hit him.
I'm going to stop about this now, because I sense I'm not making any bloody sense anymore. :-D
Just this last little thing:
It's like a dance, and they are all going through the steps they have been meant to go through since birth.
Yes. That's exactly it. That's exactly the feeling you bring across in the three drabbles. They are, all three of them, in a place they don't quite belong, but at the same time, a place they're meant to be in.
If I have to choose a favourite amongst your writings, this is definitely it.
From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
I managed to put a lot of my ideas about war (and especially the upcoming war in HP) into them, about how the side people will be on will be largely defined by which side their parents were on, and I'm not explaining this very well, but this drabble has some of that as well, how the first war is still affecting life in the Wizarding World very profoundly in many ways, and that's going to have a large impact on how the second war will play out. (Again, elaboration available upon request.)
And I have an unholy love for all three of them in these drabbles, because Marcus and Percy are kind of two sides of the same coin, they both kind of fell into their roles on their respective sides, except Marcus is a lot more realistic about it, whereas Percy's still ... trying very hard to convince others that his side is the "right" side, because by doing so he'll convince himself of that as well. And he's manipulative and sees things in black and white (I've always believed Percy had a rather large Slytherin streak in him) and he knows it's not right to be using his late brothers as a way to almost blackmail Lee, but in Percy's world, the end justifies the means.
But Percy's also the only one of them who still really feels anything, because Marcus doesn't really believe in Voldemort's cause, he just fights for it because it is after all the side he picked (and did he really have much of a choice?) and now he has to follow through, no matter how little he cares or how tired he is.
And Lee, my Lee (you'll notice an extraodrinary amount of Lee-love with me, just to warn you), outside it all, but surrounded by it (as one is, at the eye of the storm) and no longer able to feel anything, and oh. Wibble.
That last bit, where passivity suddenly changes into something active, into something you can do; and how it emphasises that it's not about picking the right side, not if you actually make a side win, how it's just about winning -- very, very nice.
Hee, thanks! It's also about how the "right" side, in the end, is usually just the side that wins, which isn't necessarily my view on war, but when I write war!fic, my cynical side tends to take over.
Yes. That's exactly it. That's exactly the feeling you bring across in the three drabbles. They are, all three of them, in a place they don't quite belong, but at the same time, a place they're meant to be in.
Which is exactly what I hoped to bring across! :D The idea that, really, this whole "free will" thing often takes a back seat to who you're born to and how you grow up. (Nature vs nurture, which is a bit of a theme in my writing sometimes, I think.)
If I have to choose a favourite amongst your writings, this is definitely it.
Oooh, thank you! (Although I must ask, have you read these? I'm not entirely proud of all of them, but as a whole, I like them, and I still rather like some of the individual ones. And there's a lot of the same themes and ideas that are in these three drabbles.)
From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
Do explain, though I think I see what you mean. The same people from the first war are still alive and kicking, and then different camps still exist, even if the (ex-)DEs are being more subtle about it, or even denying their involvement. Inside their own house, they're still either for or against Voldie, and this is, of course, influencing their kids. A racist's kid is far more likely to grow up being a racist, because s/he's never heard anything else, because his/her parents told him/her it was right this way. It doesn't necessarily have to be so, of course, but there's more chance for it to happen. Moreover, once they're inside one camp, where could they go? They can't escape, unless they cut the family bonds, a very hard choice to make. And as you show in requiem, to go where? They're not very likely to be welcomed with open arms on the other side.
I can't help wondering what the influence of the war against Grindelwald had upon the first war with Voldemort -- were the same parties, or at least their offspring, involved?
I've always believed Percy had a rather large Slytherin streak in him
This has always confused me. There are quite a few characters who seem to be missorted upon first glance. Hermione, for instance, seems to be the perfect Ravenclaw, while Neville seems more fitted for Hufflepuff. Slowly, however, we're discovering why they were Sorted into Gryffindor. It all starts making sense.
And then there's Percy. Percy's largest Slytherin characteristic is his ambition (do you seen any others in canon?), but then, he has that aplenty. And oh, yes, he seems to have gone over to, well, a semi-dark side, betraying his family in the process (though I'm not quite convinced as I've explained once before, if you remember), which in JKR's world seems to be a Slytherin thing to do.
But. She even has him looking through books about Prefects who want to gain power, for goodness' sake. Can you scream Slytherin even louder? So I'm really waiting for the other shoe to drop. What is it that makes Percy a Gryffindor? There has to be a reason, and I don't think we've seen it yet. And I'm wondering if we ever will. I do hope so.
From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
I have now. :-) I'd planned on reading them, then didn't get around to it. Though I read them just after you commented back. When I said Lather, … was my favourite amongst your writings, I meant among those I'd read. Sorry 'bout the confusion. I'd read all the HP drabbles which were under the same link. Though, having read you Lee/Marcus war drabbles, Lather, … is still my favourite. It's Percy. I do like Lee, and your Marcus, but your Percy just twisted something in me in a way Lee and Marcus can't quite manage. Which doesn't mean that I don't love them anyway, it just means that I really, really love your Percy.
About your Lee/Marcus war!drabbles.
I like requiem very much, and how it shows what it's like for Marcus. How he's not allowed to mourn for those he cares for, because everybody just considers him a Slytherin anyway. There's something very empty, very routinely and uncaring about that drabble -- especially when he starts contemplating his own funeral -- and it works. I also like how only one of the twins' body shows, like some irony of fate.
In perspective, I like how you let Lee turn something which seems like one of Marcus's faults turn into something positive. Or no, that's not quite right -- how you show that despite the fact that Lee doesn't like the fact that Marcus cheats, how underneath it all, he really thinks Marcus is a good player. It takes Lee from someone who thoughtlessly bashes the Slytherins to someone with a keen sense of observation, and someone who's at least willing to admit to himself what the talents of his opponents are, and at the same time shows Marcus really is skilled -- all in one sentence.
And I like how you show that they are so far into the war that it all doesn't matter anymore, that they see everything through the eyes of the war -- how what happened at Quidditch doesn't really matter anymore, just what happens during the war.
In personal, I like the last sentence, though I like it in relationship to the rest. There's something very slow and detached about the drabble, as though even Marcus is sort of experiencing it from a distance, almost reacting on instinct -- or on routine. Then, that last sentence hits hard.
I like pretty boy 'cause it's hot. :-) It is. And I love the last sentence, because despite the comparisons between Lee and the kids he sees before him, I so totally did not see that coming, and it hit me right where I live.
I like how Jordan's dreads -- and his scars -- seem to be some sort of metaphor for all that's been lost between Lee and Marcus. How their absence seems to say: it's not there anymore. It comes through strongest in sometimes, of course, but you use this throughout and I really like that.
From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
Sometimes, Lee leans against him as they're leaning over the desk.
Marcus supposes it's a start.
Awww.
He's not allowed to go out in the field anymore, and it's hard to really focus on maps, so instead, he focusses on Marcus.
I like that, though I can't really explain why. It's that "meant to be" feeling again, I suppose.
And I love the ending (war). How Marcus wants to make up for his mistakes -- and in a way it's all he's got on the side of light, all that makes him respectable: the fact that he is a good strategist. And now he lost. And all those people he's not allowed to mourn.
I like how Lee doesn't allow Marcus to be gentle. I'm glad you did it like this, because I would have felt cheated otherwise -- they're not some sort of sappy romance, they just… are. I like Marcus's "well, he's got a point" for that reason, 'cause it may be clumsy and wrong, but it's just that which makes the situation perfect. Or perfectly imperfect. :-) And I like the contract of how it's at the same time different and the same, how it seems out of time -- it seems to say that they have changed, and yet, deep down, they're still the same people.
I don't know if you can change mistakes easily, or if you even care, but if you do, I picked up the following:
In perspective
He looks the exactly the same as the last time Lee saw him: back straight, neck and shoulders tense, every inch the Quidditch Captain.
He does what he's good at, watching and reporting, calling things as he sees them no matter whether people liked what he said. (I only think that should be a present tense…)
He called Flint on his faults, and earning himself the eternal hatred of most of Slytherin House
In time:
then shakes his head at Marcus and mutters something about how corruption and filthy habits. (There seems to be a bit missing.)
Sorry, can't seem to keep myself from picking up stuff like that. Maybe because I make that kind of mistakes all the time myself. :-)
From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
Oh, cool, I hadn't thought of that, but I did think that Neville needed to put in an appearance to sort of break up this impression that everything in this story 'verse is doom and gloom. Also, I like Neville, and I think he'd be a very good doctor, and quite competent even in the face of all the horridly wounded that would stream in during a war, I think.
Marcus waking up with Lee lying on top of him is just sweet, and hopeful.
Isn't it? For reasons I still cannot figure out, I do love this pairing, despite its absolute groundlessness.
How Marcus wants to make up for his mistakes -- and in a way it's all he's got on the side of light, all that makes him respectable: the fact that he is a good strategist. And now he lost. And all those people he's not allowed to mourn.
Exactly! I really do feel bad for Marcus for what I put him through in this drabble series, because yes, Lee's the one who got raped and mutilated (don't know if I mention it in the drabbles, but Bole cost him a finger as well, and a lot of scars), but Marcus is the one who takes his job personal, no matter what he tells himself, because every time one of his people dies, he knows he'll be held responsible, and he's holding himself responsible, too.
I like how Lee doesn't allow Marcus to be gentle. I'm glad you did it like this, because I would have felt cheated otherwise -- they're not some sort of sappy romance, they just… are.
Which is exactly what I love about them. They're a completely impossible pair, and in this 'verse especially they're both too hopelessly damaged to ever have a healthy relationship after the war, I think, but right now, they're right for each other.
I like Marcus's "well, he's got a point" for that reason, 'cause it may be clumsy and wrong, but it's just that which makes the situation perfect.
I agonised over that for so long, because I wanted to make it clear that Marcus wasn't saying that Lee deserved to be raped because of what happened between them at Hogwarts, but that he's not seeing the difference between what Bole did to Lee and what he did to Lee, that he feels guilty, because at this point, he's already so used to feeling responsible for every bad thing that happens that it's hard to stop.
And thanks for the pointers on typos and spelling mistakes, will fix those on the next update!
From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
Hey, no problem, just checking. :) I tend to put a lot of my ideas on the War especially into various drabbles and stories, so I tend to reference those rather than try to explain in non-fic. <g>
I like requiem very much, and how it shows what it's like for Marcus. How he's not allowed to mourn for those he cares for, because everybody just considers him a Slytherin anyway. There's something very empty, very routinely and uncaring about that drabble -- especially when he starts contemplating his own funeral -- and it works. I also like how only one of the twins' body shows, like some irony of fate.
Hee! Glad you liked that. :) And yeah, this was one of the things I've written where the idea of the House Prejudices being some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy during the Second War really comes out.
Or no, that's not quite right -- how you show that despite the fact that Lee doesn't like the fact that Marcus cheats, how underneath it all, he really thinks Marcus is a good player.
Which I think is actually the main reason he's quite as nasty as he is about calling Marcus on his faults during the games, because he thinks Marcus is a great player, pro material, but this cheating shit won't fly in the pro league, and to Lee, it just makes no sense.
It takes Lee from someone who thoughtlessly bashes the Slytherins to someone with a keen sense of observation, and someone who's at least willing to admit to himself what the talents of his opponents are, and at the same time shows Marcus really is skilled -- all in one sentence.
Awww, thanks! Also, tangent: I tend to have two mutually exclusive theories about Lee's (im)partiality. The first is the one presented in this story, that he's mostly impartial but just gets a bit carried away when someone commits a foul, especially when that someone is a potentially talented player--and really, Marcus must have some talent beyond cheating, or why else would he be Captain?
The second is that Lee gets away with being rather biased because he's really smart and good at Transfigurations and therefore he's McGonnagal's favourite.
I like pretty boy 'cause it's hot. :-) It is.
Good. It was supposed to be. :D Random bit of hotness in the middle of everything else, but then I couldn't resist adding some cynisism.
And I love the last sentence, because despite the comparisons between Lee and the kids he sees before him, I so totally did not see that coming, and it hit me right where I live.
You have no idea how happy that just made me. :D
From:
Re: Feedback, at last...
*deep breath* Right, well, I think I should start with a few disclaimerish warning things. Point one: I'm going to do this in English, as I've a difficult time discussing HP in Dutch in writing, but I'll likely be throwing in Dutch terms here and there because there's not always English equivalents for the terms. Point two: I'm a history geek. WW2 is one of my areas of interest, if you will. Sometimes, I get carried away. Point three: First War and Second War refer to the first and second (current) war against Voldemort. The Grindewald era will be mentioned separately. WW1 and WW2 should be self-explanatory. :)
Right, that said ...
The thing I've always missed in HP post-war fanfic is the sense of consequences the Second War will have. I think we've seen some of the consequences the first War had, with the apparent assumptions about Slytherins all being future Death Eaters (and I could get started on the House Prejudice, but that's another comment, I think), the people who've been locked up for the last fifteen years without any sort of trial (Sirius!), the people who've never been locked up even though everyone knows/"knows" they were involved with Voldemort, and as you mention, the latter are now raising children of their own.
(Side note: I don't know that I'd compare the anti-Muggle sentiments with racism per se. I can sort of see the point of people who want to stay hidden from Muggles--it does pose a danger--and Muggleborns are the biggest link between Wizarding World and Muggle society, which I think is one of the reasons why Muggleborns are near-brainwashed at Hogwarts, but that's a tangent I've gone on in list posts, which I'll try and remember to cut&paste for you. Anyway, I think a better comparison would be the situation in Israel/Palestina. Again, shall elaborate in different comment.)
They're not very likely to be welcomed with open arms on the other side.
Exactly, exactly, and this is where the Second War = WW2 parallel becomes really clear to me, because yeah, nazi parallels and all, but it's the subtle things that are a lot more significant to me. Part of the reason why Hitler was able to gain control was that he latched on to the resentment the German people felt at how hard they were punished after WW1. I can see a lot of similarities between the inter-WW era and the time between the Voldemort Wars. There's still a lot of resentment, on both sides, and I think also shame--see for example Fudge's denial of Voldemort's return, which to me suggests that This Is Not Something He Wants To Think About, for various reason. But I think I'm reaching a bit, there.
Anyway, right now, the Wizarding World is still really feeling the aftershocks of the First War, but it's all hidden, people try to pretend life just went on, but underneath, there's still a lot of resentment and hatred, in part I think because of the lack of proper trials. I mean, yeah, I understand that in the middle of a war, there's not always time to properly persecute people that need to be taken off the streets immediately, but why not after the war? What the Wizarding World needs, I think, is the equivalent of the Truth Comission in South Africa, although it's now far too late for that. Perhaps after the Second War, though.
(cont'd)
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Re: Feedback, at last...
Which, finally, brings me to my point. What I was trying to explore in this drabble trilogy, especially in Once More and I Will Not Forsake, was the idea that because the wounds of the First War are still festering under the surface of Wizarding Society, most everyone is almost literally born to their place in the Second War. Marcus is on Voldemort's side not necessarily because he truly believes in Voldemort's cause, but because his father was, and Flint Sr spent most of Marcus' childhood and teenaged years as a bitter man, convinced that he'd been cheated out of things (social position, money) that were rightfully his if it hadn't been for the First War, and it's difficult to go against that sort of thing even when one is an adult, I think. Percy, OTOH, is in a way upholding his family name--he "takes it almost as a personal affront", tries to be his father, in a way, almost like Marcus is trying to be/become what his father never was. And I'm rambling now.
Getting back to what I said in the beginning, many HP fanfics mention a backlash and paranoia against, say, Draco, but I never see the more subtle consequences that WW2 had parallelled in the fanfic discriptions of the aftermath of the Second War: the paranoia, the "nazi whores," head shaven and locked in cages, the accusations of collaboration that are still affecting people in Belgium even today, etc. I think perhaps (and this is me playing amateur antropologist, but) it's that very few HP fanfic writers are from continental Europe, and they forget that there's a difference between fighting a war somewhere else, or even having your own cities bombed by airplanes, and actually having been occupied by the enemy, which, effectively is what the Wizarding World was/will be under Voldemort.
I can't help wondering what the influence of the war against Grindelwald had upon the first war with Voldemort -- were the same parties, or at least their offspring, involved?
This is purely my own opinion, and I don't know that I've any basis for this, but I've a feeling that Grindewald was much more an "old school" World-dominating Wizard Wannabe, that he worked on his own with perhaps a handful of minions, but not playing on people's prejudices and fears the way Voldemort did. Grindewald, I think, just wanted power.
Slowly, however, we're discovering why they were Sorted into Gryffindor. It all starts making sense.
Especially since OP, I personally think the Hat considers it more important where you want to be sorted than where you should be sorted, as it were. It's not so much about where your talents lie, but about what's important to you.
And oh, yes, he seems to have gone over to, well, a semi-dark side, betraying his family in the process (though I'm not quite convinced as I've explained once before, if you remember), which in JKR's world seems to be a Slytherin thing to do.
But. She even has him looking through books about Prefects who want to gain power, for goodness' sake. Can you scream Slytherin even louder? So I'm really waiting for the other shoe to drop. What is it that makes Percy a Gryffindor?
Well, see above, but also, I think going against your family to do what you think is right takes a great deal of courage, and I do think that Percy believes (believed?) that what he is (was) doing is (was) right. Which is why I'm so afraid of Percy. I've always liked him well enough, but I had this undetermined, uneasy feeling about him, and then from about a third through GF, it occured to me that Percy would make the perfect unknwling pawn for Voldemort. "Ich habe es nicht gewust," indeed. (And I'm sure my spelling of that was shite, but there you go.)
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Re: Feedback, at last...
I can't remember if we've brought this up on-list before, or if this was
just in private e-mail, but it seems to me that Muggleborns really sort of
get the short end of the stick in the Hogwarts school system. Take, for
example, Hermione. At the age of eleven, she was told she was a witch, and
went off to Hogwarts. Since then, she's only studied magic, which means
she's missed six years of maths, various sciences, English, plus possibly
French or other languages.
What if she, or any of the other Muggleborns, wanted to go to university?
For that matter, what if any pureblood witch or wizard wanted to go to
university? And I don't think that *not* letting one's child go to Hogwarts
is an option, because untrained wizards are a liability, what with the
spontaneous magic.
So basically, being a Muggleborn witch or wizard means that not only are you
sent away from your family for most of the year from the time you're eleven,
but you're also almost irrevocably bound to the wizarding world, because
you're used to using magic all the time, you're disconnected from the Muggle
world, I should think, after spending ten months out of a year immersed in
the wizarding world, and you've pretty much no choice but to get a job (and
thus, build up a life) in the wizarding world, because you don't have the
education necessary in the Muggle world.
I suspect that, conciously or not, this system is kept in place in part to
almost assimilate Muggleborns into the wizarding world, and thus to keep the
wizarding world very much seperate from the Muggle one. This is also
evident, for example, in the fact that the Weasleys live relatively near a
Muggle town, but don't ever seem to have wandered into it
(http://www.hp-lexicon.org/atlas-b-burrow.html), despite Mr Weasley's
supposed interest in All Things Muggle.
And quite frankly, I don't know how happy I'd be to send any of my
hypothetical children to Hogwarts. I mean, what sort of teacher sents four
*eleven-year old children* out into a forest they've previously declared
incredibly dangerous? And why didn't *any* of the parents protest Umbridge's
decrees, or even her corporal punishment of students?
Not to mention that Snape fellow, whom I personally would've liked to have
for a teacher, except for that nasty habit he has of putting people down as
persons for not being good at Potions. I mean, seriously, people,
considering that there only appear to be about a dozen teaching posts at
Hogwarts (and thus in the UK and Ireland), one would think they'd be able to
get a teacher who actually, you know, *likes* *teaching*. (And doesn't carry
a rather childish grudge against the son of the bloke who bullied him in
school, but that's another rant for another time.)
Seriously, what sane person would even consider sending their child to this
school?
(Second post, responding to people ...)
My impression is that there's a lot of measures in place that stop
Muggleborns from hanging onto their ... well, their heritage, for
lack of a better word. Electronics don't work on Hogwarts Grounds
[1], so TVs, computers, radios, even walkmans are right out. The only
way they have to keep up with what's happening in the Muggle world
would be for their parents to owl (or maybe mail, but there's no
canon mention of the Royal Mail delivering to Hogwarts in any way)
them newspapers.
And even if they manage to keep up with current events, what about
pop culture? Even if they're not the type to actually go along with
pop culture, being (kept) completely ignorant about it is another
thing entirely. For ten months a year (nine if you also discount
Christmas and Easter holidays), they're effectively in another world,
wearing Hogwarts robes during the school hours, and likely also
outside them, because why bother changing into Muggle clothes that
will make them stand out even more from their pureblood schoolmates?
(cont'd)
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Re: Feedback, at last...
these kids are suddenly writing them letters on parchment, instead of
plain paper? Surely they'll wonder what kind of school doesn't allow
newspapers, walkmans, teen magazines, etc. I imagine it's an
incredible struggle to keep one's Muggle friends over the summer,
when they're all talking about things you're more or less clueless
about, and you can't share much of anything about your own school
life.
And then, to revisit the issue of the actual schooling, there's the
issue that at age eleven, you're pretty much forced to give up the
world you know and grew up in, all your friends, your family, because
after those seven years, it's very difficult to blend back into
Muggle society. I think Hermione could do it, studying Muggle
subjects over the summer, and taking her O- and A-level exams like
the homeschooled kids [2], possibly a year later for her A-levels, so
she can go to uni if she wants to. But I don't think a lot of the
other Muggleborn children could or would.
(Snip someone else's ranting about the lack of things like bics and stuff at Hogwarts.)
Especially since there's no good reason why they shouldn't! I mean, I
could understand if it was a matter of preferring magical solutions
to problems over the Muggle (technical) solutions to the same
problems. (E.g. cars vs Apparating/the Floo Network/Portkeys, except
they *do* have cars.) But there's nothing magical about Quills and
parchment, so why not, at the very least, switch to fountain pens and
paper?
It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why hang on to the robes (and
hats!) like that? Why the quills and parchment? The electronics at
Hogwarts, fair enough if that's really because of all the magic, but
surely if they tried they could come up with counterspells for that?
Why haven't they? Why the insistence on the one, centralised wizard
(boarding) school for the entire UK and Ireland, rather than a number
of smaller ones that would allow children to actually grow up with
their families, be they Wizard or Muggle? [3]
The more I think about it, the more the wizarding world strikes me as
very cult-ish, with Hogwarts as its main brainwashing tool. I know, I
know, I'm probably overreacting and/or reading things into this that
JKR never intended to put in, but still.
[1] From the Lexicon:
<<"All those substitutes for magic Muggles use - electricity,
computers, and radar, and all those things - they all go haywire
around Hogwarts, there's too much magic in the air."
-- Hermione Granger, who has read Hogwarts, A History>>
(http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts_outside.html)
They don't quote a
source on this, but as it's an actual quote, I'm assuming it's in the
books somewhere. Side note: why is Hermione talking about Muggles as
if they're some strange, unknown people? She's Muggleborn, for fuck's
sake. **frowns**
[2] While homeschooling isn't as widespread in the UK as it is in the
US, it is legal (http://www.geocities.com/sueincyprus/). Obviously,
Muggle parents of Wizard children can't claim to their neighbours
that their children are homeschooled, but I'm sure the Ministry could
arrange for Muggleborns to take their exams as homeschooled children.
Whether they'd *want* to is another thing, of course.
[3] All right, so I have issues with boarding schools in general,
thanks to my mum's stories about her boarding school years and her
fervent opposition to the very *thought* of sending any of her
children to one. And my mother was *sixteen*, not *eleven* when she
first went there. It just boggles my mind how children grow up away
from their parents in the WW--*all* of them; this entire society is
made up of people who spent most of their formative years away from
their families. I'm twenty-two, and I miss my family if I don't see
them for three *weeks*, let alone three *months*.
(cont'd)
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Re: Feedback, at last...
(Someone made a point about how the older generations are the majority in the Wizarding World, because of their age spans.)
That's actually a very good point indeed. And it's not just the sheer
number of "older" generations, but also the fact that they're around
for a lot longer. The younger generations have to fight traditions
going back a lot further, so the progress/evolution is a lot slower
than in the Muggle world.
(And then a point about how there'll be more younger wizards and less older ones after the Second War.)
Oooh, that'd be interesting to see. And after the second war, it won't
just be the numbers that count, but also the fact that it will be
Harry (and possibly his generation) that defeated Voldemort, which
would give him a lot more influence than previous generations had.
(Snip, and then on the subject of how many students there are at Hogwarts ...)
One thousand, actually, I think JKR said. The vast majority of the
evidence in the actual books points towards there being about 280
students. (See http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts_howmany.html for a
list of evidence.)
One could argue that the Trio and their year are the last children
born during the First War, and that subsequent years may very well
have more than 70 students per year. Even then, it would take until at
least the Trio's sixth, probably seventh year before the population of
Hogwarts would expand to 1,000 (again?). Plus, as the article above
notes, there'd be all sorts of logistical problems with that number of
students, not in the least with the teachers. (I made up a class
schedule for a HP RPG I'm in, and even with the limited number of 280
students, most of these teachers are really damn busy.)
Er, . You're very right about the practical issues,
though. Which isn't to say I don't still dislike the whole setup, but
then, as you noted, I come form a completely different background.
But really, why not just have the children floo in every morning, then?
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Re: Feedback, at last...
("Wie zijn ze? Wat drijft hen?")and appropriate parallels therefore. :)I don't think the comparison to racism is quite right, because while many racists have this fear of coloured people murdering them in their sleep or somesuch, that fear is quite unfounded, whereas I think that if you look at the witch hunts and the inquisition and all, I think Wizards have some reason to be weary of Muggles. And Muggleborns do present a risk, because can you really trust them to never say a word about the Wizarding World to their Muggle friends and relatives?
Which isn't to say that I don't think at least some of them (the Malfoys, for example) have taken the whole thing into the realm of race politics, but I think it's also just the tip of the iceberg of the prejudice that permeates the entirety of Wizarding society. To pick a rather blatant example, how about the House Elves? And how about the House Prejudice (see above re: people seeing all Slytherins as future Death Eaters)?
Or how about the brainwashing of the Muggleborns I talked about at length above? Sure, most wizards and witches frown on outright hatred such as Draco displays ("Mudblood"), but they still expect Muggleborns to completely assimilate into Wizarding society. Seamus is half-Muggle, but doesn't, apparently, know what football is, and Dean is the only one who's ever mentioned Muggle things in everyday conversation, and he's kind of seen as odd (harmless and fun despite the oddness, but odd nonetheless, I think) because of his West Ham poster.
Er, back to my point, I prefer to compare the Muggle/Wizard issue to the Israel/Palestine one, or perhaps even more accurately the situation in Northern Ireland, where the issue goes so far back the blame is really equally on both sides, or on neither side, but both sides are so afraid of each other, hate each other so much, that reconsiliation seems almost impossible.
And speaking of Northern Ireland, have I mentioned my pet IRA HP theory?
(And I think that's all for now. You really shouldn't get me started. <g>)
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Re: Feedback, at last...
Which was most of why I wrote that, although there's also the fact that especially in drabbles, I tend to work with semi-charicatures of the Houses, which in the case of Gryffindor means "too stupid to be afraid". (Er, yes. I'm a real bitch about these things sometimes. <g>)
The Curves Of Your Lips Rewrite History
I think you make a good point about reversing the order, but like you said, it's a matter of whether the starting point is canon or fanon, and for me, the starting point should always be canon. I don't even see the last one as being fanon so much as it's the third possible outcome of things as they are now, but then I tend to try and forget anything I know of HP fanon in the first place and just work with what's in my head. But I see your point. :)
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Re: Feedback, at last...
I see your point, too, and I agree canon should be the starting point. However, most people sadly have been in fandom for a long time, and I, personally, simply can't switch off what I know about fanon while reading. *shrug* I hung out at
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Re: Feedback, at last...
And I think I should perhaps think about that more when making editing choices, because I think a lot of people are influenced by fanon, and forgetting that will change the reaction I get from my audience, I think.