(no subject)

[bubosquared]

Melle: *kicks Ann Landers* dude, okay. <<I do not believe it is wise to have your teenage daughters running around nude in front of their father and adolescent brother. >> WHAT THE FUCK?
Tri: Um, you did hear that Ann Landers died, right?
Melle: My dad and brothers have seen me naked THOUSANDS of times! They're not SCARRED or anything, and neiter am I!
Melle: And yes. But I still want to kick her.

Comments

[asilvahalo.livejournal.com]

My stepmom once yelled at me for, when we were staying in a hotel (her, me, and my dad in one room), sleeping in just a teeshirt and underwear. Like, for fuck's sake, woman. He's my *dad*. American "nudity" morals are kinda fucked up, man.

And was it Ann Landers or Dear Abby that died?

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

That was Ann Landers, yeah.

And yeah, it's just. The fuck? Dude, my family never locks the bathroom door or anything. We always went to nudist camings, and I've often stomped downstairs naked to get my clean underwear from the dryer or whatever. I mean, my dad cuts my hair, and I always take off my shirt and bra to avoid hairs getting on my clothes.

We're not scarred, people. We're not a psycho family or anything.

Sheesh.

[armistice.livejournal.com]

You know, actually? That sounds kinda weird to me. I would never be anywhere near naked around my father. I just wouldn't feel comfortable, even in just a t-shirt and underwear. I wouldn't ever, ever, be anything less than entirely clothed around him. Although, to be fair, I haven't lived with him since I was 10, so that might have something to do with that.

And my sister and I change clothes in front of each other, but we turn our backs. And if my mom is home and I need clothes from the basement, or even from the bathroom (which is about twenty feet from my room), I put clothes on first.

It's not like I'm a prude or anything, I mean, I've been naked in a room with in excess of 20 people in it (locker rooms) and not thought a thing about it. It's just with my family, it's. I'd just be uncomfortable being less than fully clothed around them.

[asilvahalo.livejournal.com]

See me? I ran around partially clothed most of my life (until the aforementioned "teeshirt and underwear does not constitute 'clothing'" incident.), but now I'm very anxious about being fully clothed around *all* guys. Then again, I'm freaky-modest-girl. Seriously. I made the ex shut off the light and shit. I'm very "eek!" and displeased with the me!naked.

The Melle thing sounds a little weird, but healthy. It sounds like a family I know, actually, where there's so many of them, they have very little sense of privacy and used to just change clothes in the liviing room in the morning before school.

[asilvahalo.livejournal.com]

I do, however, run around the house partially-nude if I need to get clean clothes. :)

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think a lot of it's just a matter of being used to it. I mean, I've seen more naked people than anyone I know, and I have to say, I credit the nudist campings for a lot of my healthy body image, becasue once you've seen what the average person looks like under their clothes, you realise nobody's perfect.

(oddly enough, very few "gorgeous people" seem to go to nudist campins and beaches.)

[armistice.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, I don't think it's particularly unhealthy to be naked around family, and in fact, it's probably pretty unhealthy to feel like you have to hide your body from them at all times no matter what. It's just something that I'm not used to. Not really something anyone talks about either, unless it's to take the Ann Landers stance.

The other thing I never really got was that "little girls should sleep on the mom's side of the bed, little boys should sleep on the father's side" thing. Like, what? Why? How is simply sleeping next to her father going to screw up a little girl?

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

That's the thing, see. I mean, I understand being uncomforable with it, but what ann Landers is implying, and what that side of the bed thing is implying, is that every guy is going to molest his kids/sisters just because they're naked or whatever.

And that's just so fucked-up, man. I can be naked around my family as much as I like, I know they're still seeing my as their daughter/sister, not as someone to lust after; That's just such a fucked-up idea, y'know?

[asilvahalo.livejournal.com]

Hey man. You ever read Flowers in the Attic. Brother is horny because he's locked in the attic! And he doesn't know any other girls. So instead of jerking off like a normal kid, he bangs his sister. Heh. Because there's no such thing as a guy who doesn't want to bang his relatives in a VC Andrews novel.

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Well, it's really only my parents and brothers. Extended family I'd be weird around. But mostly, I'm okay. I mean, when Ruth came over, I undressed in front of her, no sweat. (I sleep mostly naked.) I did wear shorts and a shirt when I was sharing a hotel room with Steve in NYC, though.

[asilvahalo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but that's because it was Steve. ;)

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Well. Yes. And also because he's a guy. And stuff. I'd be uncomfortable being naked around most of my male friends, except people like Bram and all, whom I've known since we were babies.

I never said I was completely issue-free.

[armistice.livejournal.com]

Ann Landers just died, like, fairly recently. I think Dear Abby is still kickin' it, but her daughter is writing her advice column or something. But she might be dead, too. Hm.

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

No, they're cowriting the collumn, supposedly.

Well, it's not quite so easy

[msallegro.livejournal.com]

It all depends on the standards of the culture in which you're raised.

Most of US culture automatically sexualizes nudity, especially the nudity of young women. Nearly everything that is supposed to represent sex is represented by images of nude or near-nude young women. This is what young women in our culture are faced with, so they are faced with automatically considering their own bodies sexualized as well. And, of course, men see this the same way, too. At the same time, we also stigmatize sexuality, especially healthy sexuality between mature and loving partners. So basically, the only concept of sex most people here have is 18 year old nubile sluts doing something "naughty" and "forbidden" and the only image of nudity--especially that of young women--is as something sexual. (which is also why so many older or non-conventionally attractive women fear their own nudity even in non-sexualized contexts)

Of course, this sucks, and a lot of well-meaning parents have tried to combat this, but it's very hard, and what unfortunately tends to happen is that because of the culture in which they reside, even family nudity takes on a sexualized air, and sometimes intimacy lines can get crossed. It's possible for people to get beyond this, but it takes an awful lot of work because you're fighting a very subtle and pervasive sort of cultural brainwashing. It takes a very mature child who has been very well conditioned to ignore all the messages about sex and nudity she gets in her surrounding culture to not have some ill effect from nudity in a family situation, even in the best-intended circumstances. Until the larger culture changes (hopefully by starting to expand on the idea that sex isn't just for young, slender strangers) it's going to be hard for Americans to accept completely non-sexualized nudity.

Re: Well, it's not quite so easy

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, I mean I understand that cultures differ, and even in Belgium we're a rather exceptionally free family--my folks are ex-hippies, which explains a lot.) BUt to me, whan AL is/was saying implies two things:

1) Any guy will potentially turn into a molestor upon seeing his daughter/sister naked; and
2) Walking around naked will make one's father/brother be tempted to molest you

and both of those things are, basically, putting the blame on the victims, which is just indescribably wrong to me. People who molest their daughters/sisters, or even see them as anything but their daughters/sisters, are just sick fucks, and saying that the girl walked around naked is no excuse.

(Did all of that make sense at all? It's too early for me to be coherent. I swear, I should not be allowed to communicate before coffee ...)

[burntcopper.livejournal.com]

christ. I doubt my dad's seen me naked beyond the age of ten, but that's mostly because we were never a big naked family - before the age of ten I was a right little streaker. Brother, yes, because we've shared hotel rooms.

Mind you, I've posed naked and walked around naked in front of strangers. So, actually, more people *not* of my family have seen me naked than not. Especially if they've seen the photos I posed for. Think it's an art school thing - "Hey, will you pose for me?" "Hell yeah!"

[sonatine.livejournal.com]

*rolls eyes* Well, according to the nice people at CAP Alert (http://www.capalert.com/), I should be a left devil-worshipping feminist lesbian basketcase because my dad walked around in his underwear when I was little. Hurrah for prudish American mores. It really irritates me that my country can't get over the fact that nakedness is not necessarily sexual. I think we need more topless mags that don't have paper coverings over them so the teenage boys (and the skanky middle-aged men) will just get the fuck over themselves and realize that nudity loses its sexual connotations when you see it in places other than a porn site or a wanker mag.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

nudity loses its sexual connotations when you see it in places other than a porn site or a wanker mag

I think that's a very true thing, that. I mean, I've grown up in an environment where being naked was just a matter of practicality. I don't understand how anyone can manage to lock bathroom doors when there's four other people in the house. I mean, if we'd have done that, we'd never have managed to get to work&school in time. To me, being naked just means I can't be arsed with clothes, because it's too hot or whatever.

And you know, statements like AL's imply, to me, not only that any guy is going to turn into an incestuous animal because his daughter or sister is walking around naked, but also that if girls get molested, it's their own fault for letting their fathers/brothers see them naked, and that's just. Wrong. You know? I mean, I can objectively say that my oldest brother is a damn fine specimen of the male species, but he's still my brother, and I can't imagine actually seeing him as anything more than that, anything sexual, you know what I mean?