This still amuses me. Free The LiveJournal Three! Possible because it's late and I'm immresed in my IRA research and well, I'm trying to make sense of it all and it's nice to have things like this to lugh about so there.
By the time I get that, Cassie is already offed from FanFiction.Net and her friends our howling and worried because they do this too. At this point, enter Pamela Dean... the professional author from whom Cassandra Claire "tributed" her work too. Pamela Dean didn't think Cassie's work was a tribute, didn't think the citation, hell any citation was good enough for that. If I recall correctly and I am reasonably sure I do, Pamela Dean felt that even with a proper citation on Cassie's part, that was still ahem boys and girls and fans of Cassie, still plagiarism. At this point, Pamela Dean is now in contact with two members of FanFiction.Net's staff.
And there are people on Cassie's list who think Cassie should just e-mail Pamela Dean and ask permission so that she can be put back on FanFiction.Net. Cassie doesn't want to be put back on FanFiction.net (I'm not her but this is based on her posts to Cassie & Rhysenn and PoU where she says exactly that.) but as their is a rumor out there (huh, who started that?) that Pamela Dean knows and she isn't happy... Well needles to say, Cassie contacts Pamela Dean. (This is some what after FanFiction.Net and others have e-mailed her with the decidedly un-Cassie favored view.) Pamela Dean apparently decides to let her agent handle this as this is a MAJOR NO NO.
Time goes by (and my rant on plagiarism gets lots of hits, the venting stops and Cassie continues her "tributes"), and in November, months and months after this all happened, Cassie posts to some message board that she now has permission to have PD's sections in her stories. (Which, in my mind at least, still a plagiarist makes her as she should have had permission BEFORE hand, she still writes those passages using other people's stuff, and the citation hasn't changed.)
Coincidently, Pamela Dean posts to I believe rec.arts.sf.writing that she understands problems with copyright infringement as she had to deal with people who didn't understand it recently either.
Thanks for the blow-by-blow. [shakes head in disgust] Well, after hearing that I don't ever want to hear another ficcer whining about TPTB persecution, not that sort anyway. Your essay was one hundred percent correct, and if I were Pamela Dean I'd be cease-and-desisting like there's no tomorrow. (Not to mention that as a lawyer myself I get more than slightly twitchy when people just IGNORE BLATANT EVIDENCE in favor of their *feelings,* but that's my personal issues talking.)
Did I mention this fandom seems to be dominated by emotionally overwrought thirteen-year-olds(mentally speaking, anyway)? Makes me glad I keep my non-pick-and-choose stuff away from them and theirs.
when people just IGNORE BLATANT EVIDENCE in favor of their *feelings,*
This is the problem I have with a lot of fandom debates, especially about RPS. People let their emotions overrun their logical minds, and that's just not something I can handle. It irritates me, and well, I've adapted the attitude that when meotions overrun brains, the argument is lost.
I wouldn't mind the emotions at all... It's why when I say stuff about RPS myself, I always temper it with "This is how I feel." My feelings aren't fact and don't apply to the whole wide world.
The Cassandra Claire thing and a lot of other stuff in fandom boils down to "I feel this way so everyone else must feel the same way." IE I can tribute people and because I would be flattered that some one did that to me, it's okay.
Of course, they don't phrase it that way... the phrase it as fact IE It's a tribute and no one gets hurt so it is okay. If you present evidence, it still doesn't matter to them most of the time becaue it contradicts their feelings, so facts are wrong.
It's why, while I acknowledge there is wiggle room for RPS and fan fiction, I myself wouldn't tolerate either based on me or mine and I'd probably seek legal recourse.
I'm just sick and tired of them bitching about Warner Brothers going after slashers. I am probably out of the loop, but have they done anything more than say stuff in those two or three articles?
I just can't see that as persecution at all. I see it as ass covering on their part.
I got a little nervous when I saw the original article/s, but I've been watching the situation and thus far all they said was 1) they weren't pleased (well, they never are), 2) they were "exploring their legal options" and 3) they were somewhat hesitant to go after HP slash because that might actually backfire to give it an even more prominent online profile. As far as I can tell, nobody's been C&D-ed or shut down yet--there's always a chance of it, but I honestly doubt it's going to happen unless some slasher out there does something really foolish, like say *inform* TPTB or JK Rowling or some of the actors involved of exactly what they're writing. (Which, as we all know--the naivete of people never to be underestimated--has happened in more than one fandom. Ach.)
I personally am far less nervous about the Warner Brothers legal team than I am of the self-appointed "stamp out Internet child porn" crowd. Considering that many slashers themselves dismiss HP slash as pedophilic, well, not too much of a support network there if someone ends up on the chopping block. Cross fingers, low profile.
but than again, I have my moments of cruelty and I was hoping the people who said Cassie was not a plagiarist because of whatever (one such being that they all do it so not wrong)and banned me from various Harry Potter lists where I was once welcome... Pettiness. (Moments of pettiness.)
But in all honesty, I didn't think anything would happen. I thought it served two functions: it pacified parents and Christian elements who might have found this material and been offended by it or used it as justification to burn Harry Potter books. I think it also was an attempt to probably help protect their trademarks by saying it is out there and they don't tolerate it. (Because if they don't say that sort of thing, than they risk loosing potentially their trademark which is something that I believe Kleenex and Zipper lost because of failure to protect their trademarks.)
Heh, it's not just the "stamp out Internet child porn" people who are a problem. I believe it was Salon.com who did an article a while back on the subject and they said that the porn industry was supporting this crusade because the casual acceptance of this material is hurting their profits. Go figure.
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From:
Link it and I will come (if I don't kill LJ first.) (part two)
By the time I get that, Cassie is already offed from FanFiction.Net and her friends our howling and worried because they do this too. At this point, enter Pamela Dean... the professional author from whom Cassandra Claire "tributed" her work too. Pamela Dean didn't think Cassie's work was a tribute, didn't think the citation, hell any citation was good enough for that. If I recall correctly and I am reasonably sure I do, Pamela Dean felt that even with a proper citation on Cassie's part, that was still ahem boys and girls and fans of Cassie, still plagiarism. At this point, Pamela Dean is now in contact with two members of FanFiction.Net's staff.
And there are people on Cassie's list who think Cassie should just e-mail Pamela Dean and ask permission so that she can be put back on FanFiction.Net. Cassie doesn't want to be put back on FanFiction.net (I'm not her but this is based on her posts to Cassie & Rhysenn and PoU where she says exactly that.) but as their is a rumor out there (huh, who started that?) that Pamela Dean knows and she isn't happy... Well needles to say, Cassie contacts Pamela Dean. (This is some what after FanFiction.Net and others have e-mailed her with the decidedly un-Cassie favored view.) Pamela Dean apparently decides to let her agent handle this as this is a MAJOR NO NO.
Time goes by (and my rant on plagiarism gets lots of hits, the venting stops and Cassie continues her "tributes"), and in November, months and months after this all happened, Cassie posts to some message board that she now has permission to have PD's sections in her stories. (Which, in my mind at least, still a plagiarist makes her as she should have had permission BEFORE hand, she still writes those passages using other people's stuff, and the citation hasn't changed.)
Coincidently, Pamela Dean posts to I believe rec.arts.sf.writing that she understands problems with copyright infringement as she had to deal with people who didn't understand it recently either.
Anyway, that is the story.
From:
Re: Link it and I will come (if I don't kill LJ first.) (part two)
Did I mention this fandom seems to be dominated by emotionally overwrought thirteen-year-olds(mentally speaking, anyway)? Makes me glad I keep my non-pick-and-choose stuff away from them and theirs.
From:
Re: Link it and I will come (if I don't kill LJ first.) (part two)
This is the problem I have with a lot of fandom debates, especially about RPS. People let their emotions overrun their logical minds, and that's just not something I can handle. It irritates me, and well, I've adapted the attitude that when meotions overrun brains, the argument is lost.
But then, I'm a snob. :)
From:
Wouldn't mind the emotions
The Cassandra Claire thing and a lot of other stuff in fandom boils down to "I feel this way so everyone else must feel the same way." IE I can tribute people and because I would be flattered that some one did that to me, it's okay.
Of course, they don't phrase it that way... the phrase it as fact IE It's a tribute and no one gets hurt so it is okay. If you present evidence, it still doesn't matter to them most of the time becaue it contradicts their feelings, so facts are wrong.
It's why, while I acknowledge there is wiggle room for RPS and fan fiction, I myself wouldn't tolerate either based on me or mine and I'd probably seek legal recourse.
From:
Re: Wouldn't mind the emotions
From:
Yeah
I just can't see that as persecution at all. I see it as ass covering on their part.
From:
Re: Yeah
I personally am far less nervous about the Warner Brothers legal team than I am of the self-appointed "stamp out Internet child porn" crowd. Considering that many slashers themselves dismiss HP slash as pedophilic, well, not too much of a support network there if someone ends up on the chopping block. Cross fingers, low profile.
From:
not me
But in all honesty, I didn't think anything would happen. I thought it served two functions: it pacified parents and Christian elements who might have found this material and been offended by it or used it as justification to burn Harry Potter books. I think it also was an attempt to probably help protect their trademarks by saying it is out there and they don't tolerate it. (Because if they don't say that sort of thing, than they risk loosing potentially their trademark which is something that I believe Kleenex and Zipper lost because of failure to protect their trademarks.)
Heh, it's not just the "stamp out Internet child porn" people who are a problem. I believe it was Salon.com who did an article a while back on the subject and they said that the porn industry was supporting this crusade because the casual acceptance of this material is hurting their profits. Go figure.
From:
Pamela Dean
From:
Can't remember
*kicks dead computer*
From:
Re: Can't remember