Muttergrumblegrowl.

[bubosquared]

This thread on HPForGrownUps is starting to get on my nerve. It's entitled "Draco's redemption".

Now, I'm not fond of Just%isunderstood!Draco either. I agree that he's a jerk. But for fuck's sake, 'redemption'? As of now, Draco hasn't really done anything he should 'redeem' himself for. He's a bully, yeah, but speaking as an ex-bully-ee, That doesn't make him evil. Am I overreacting or something? I dunno, it just seriously pisses me off that they'rre judging someone by what he's like at 14. I'm weird. Ignore me.

But while I'm venting, I'd like to send a hearthy "Yeah, fuck you, too!" to the fraction on HP4GU that is of the opinion that the whole SexGod!Draco idea is to blame on fanfic and that no one writing fanfic can have a decent discussion about canon and it. pisses. me. off.

Comments

Draco

[partly-bouncy.livejournal.com]

Everything I've been told by some Harry Potter fans is that a lot of other Harry Potter fans don't understand Draco or use Draco as a Draco Sue, writing him into characterizations that don't make sense and that are not recgonizable from the canon Draco...

So if they think a bully needs redemption, than well... goes with what I've been told above.

Erm, ignore me. Outside LJ staying out of fandom.

Re: Draco

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

But see, it's the Draco-haters -- and pelase note that these are not the same as the non-Draco-lovers; Draco-haters are just as bad as the Draco-apologists ("He's just misunderstood!"), only opposite. Where was I? Oh, right, it's the Draco-haters who were talking about redemption.

I realise Draco isn't the nicest of guys. He's racist and mean, and a bully, but that's no reason to insist that there is no realistic way for him to not end up on Voldie's side.

Re: Draco

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Oh, sure. I mean, I've heard some pretty good arguments for Draco as a Snape-type character sometime in the future, and I think that would be pretty cool. Of course, since we don't know what made Snape come back from the dark side (or what made him go there in the first place, really) it's all still pretty vague.

But it could happen. And really, I'm kind of hoping it will, if only because, at the moment, Draco's one of the few flat, 2-D characters in Harry's world.

Re: Draco

[ex-verdandi713.livejournal.com]

That's exactly it--all else aside, he's so *flat.* Snape fascinates me because he always keeps you guessing, and because you could write him with equal plausibility as good *or* evil (or situationally either one)...Draco, though, there ain't much to him as of yet. If there ever is at *any* point, whether to "redeem" or "condemn" him, it'd be a welcome change.

Re: Draco

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

That's exactly it--all else aside, he's so *flat.*

That's exactly why I think something is going to happen with/to him. JKR has demonstrated her ability to create fascinating, multi-layered characters, and I'd be severely disappointed if she'd have Draco join Voldie just like that, because he's "the bad guy".

Whichever side he's going to end up on, something is going to happen with/to Draco. (I hope. Like I said, I'd be disappointed in JKR otherwise.)

[ex-verdandi713.livejournal.com]

It's not Draco's bullying tendencies that piss me off, it's his classism (Daddy bought him the Seekership of the Quidditch team?--fuck, he's the wizarding world's George W. Bush in training), his racism (judging from Ron's reaction when he first hears Draco use it against Hermione, "Mudblood" is clearly the wizarding equivalent of "kike" or "nigger"), his out-and-out glee over Cedric Diggory's murder, and the fact that some of the very same people who jump mercilessly over other folk's AU characterizations in other fandoms have no problem whatsoever with making Draco the poor widdle hurt-comfort teddy bear who only acts this way because he had a bad chiiiiiiild-hooood. In other words, it's the Alex Krycek Syndrome all over again. Face it, ladies, he's a prick.

It's also amusing that all the Harry/Draco 'shippers like to conveniently forget that Harry's first thought upon meeting Draco and listening to him whine is, "He was instantly reminded of Dudley." Oh, sweet mystery of life, at last I've found you! LOL.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Oh, Draco's a prick all right. No doubts about that. I think if I met him I'd want to slap him. He's stuck-up and mean, but I don't see him as 'irredeemably' evil. For one thing, he seems like the kind to romanticise the idea of Evil, but I doubt he's willing to get his hands dirty with actual blood.

The glee about Cedric is really the only thing I can see that indicates him being more than Your Average Stuck-Up bully (and really, aren't a lot of people stuck-up in one way or another at that age? I know I was.), and oddly enough that was the one thing I didn't see the really rabit anti-Draco-ists quoting as something they based their opinions on.

Heh. You don't want to hear my Dudley musings. Really.

[ex-verdandi713.livejournal.com]

Well, his age dictates against the "irredeemable" part--plenty of people have ideas and notions at 14 that would horrify them just a few years later--and we don't know as of yet how much of what he says he's parroting from his own father...but just *dismissing* all of it as many of the apologists do is ridiculous in the extreme.

The Cedric thing was just the last straw for me; especially as I rather liked Cedric for his own sake. Don't get me started on *my* Harry/Cedric musings, or we'll be here all day. ;-)

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Well, his age dictates against the "irredeemable" part--plenty of people have ideas and notions at 14 that would horrify them just a few years later--and we don't know as of yet how much of what he says he's parroting from his own father...

There is that, certainly. At 14, I was quiet, shy, and weak. No one who knew me then would believe I'd turn out like this.

but just *dismissing* all of it as many of the apologists do is ridiculous in the extreme.

Definitely agreed. There's a number of indications in the book that Draco really worships Lucius, and I personally think he's really romanticising the whole idea of Evil. In book one or two, there's the scene with the dring unicorn, where Draco runs screaming. Ever since then, I've been convinced that at some time in the future, Draco would be confronted with what being a Death Eater is really all about, and he'll see that it's not all glamour and glory and chasing muggles.

Whichever way he goes, though, I cannot see him as 'nice'. If (if!) he joins the 'good' side, he'd be like Snape, only worse.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Grr. I wrote this big reply but then it was too long for Livejournal and vanished. Curses.

Stubbornly, I will construct it again from the ashes.

Once more, with feeling.

Bullying-- no, not so great a sin. If Harry held a grudge against everyone who snubbed him at one point or another (Gryffindors in book one when he loses them all those points, Hufflepuffs in two and four, even *Ron* in book four) he'd just be a giant seething ball of hate. Furthermore, I think that Harry, deep down, just wants to be *liked,* and therefore if Draco ever offered a sincere apology, Harry would probably accept.

Of course, I think hell would freeze over and monkeys would fly out of some improbable places before Draco would ever *do* that, but. If it were just the bullying, then no. I wouldn't see Draco as someone who necessarily needed to be "redeemed," although perhaps I could still go with "smacked upside the head."

But the racism, the classism, the taunting Ron because he's poor-- those are the things that make me want to take a sledgehammer to Draco's mindset, shake him up a bit and drag him down about a thousand miles of bad road before I set him up with Harry. Not because I think Draco's secretly crying on the inside, but...

Well, speaking as someone who was, you know, once in junior high school-- this is my sad little fantasy, okay? That you actually *could* change stupid mean people and magically make them like you-- whoa. Sobering to realize I still haven't grown out of that one, but there it is. *shrug*

He's awful and bad and a jerk, and I want to actually physically reach into his head and slap his brain around a little. That's my kink and I'm sticking to it. *grins*

(Also, at this point, I really don't see glee in Draco after Cedric's death. Stunning disrespect, and a weird, chilling disinterest, in the sense that he really only brings it up to threaten Ron and Hermione and thus Harry-- yeah. But not actual, active glee.

Woo! Watch me split that hair, baby!

Glee is probably coming, sadly, and then I'll feel all dirty. Note to self: add more Dracopain to the WIP...)

[It's also amusing that all the Harry/Draco 'shippers like to conveniently forget that Harry's first thought upon meeting Draco and listening to him whine is, "He was instantly reminded of Dudley." Oh, sweet mystery of life, at last I've found you! LOL.]

*snerk*

Dudley/Harry, anyone? Come on, it's perfect. You've got the snotty kid for Harry's love to redeem, plus since they're cousins it's kinda got that twincest edge. Let's go, people, this could be the next big thing!

[ex-verdandi713.livejournal.com]

Harry is a walking target for a whole host of people's jealousy, insecurity, grudges, ambitions and paranoia...in other words, he's a celebrity. LOL. And it's a rare child who hasn't bullied *someone* over *something* to a greater or lesser degree, so that's not the problem (for me, anyway) with young Master Malfoy...as you note, if that were the beginning and end of it then a smack upside the head might do a world of good.

"I think that Harry, deep down, just wants to be *liked,* and therefore if Draco ever offered a sincere apology, Harry would probably accept."

He'd have to offer them to Ron and Hermione as well, before Harry would accept--Harry is a loyal kid and the thing's Draco's said to his friends have actually been far more insulting and cutting than what he's said to Harry (if only for "political" reasons...all else aside, getting someone with as much powerful magical potential as Harry into a Slytherin alliance would be a coup of obviously epic proportions). And I don't think Harry wants to be "liked" as much as not unjustly maligned and *suspected* by everyone he comes into contact with--first the Dursleys, then all these people in the wizarding world. Poor kid can't take a step without someone thinking he's plotting something...

Of course, I speak as someone who utterly adores the Weasleys--all seven of those gosh-darned neurotic redheaded kids--so every time Ron gets it in the teeth from Draco I go all maternal and wish to attack. LOL.

"Also, at this point, I really don't see glee in Draco after Cedric's death. Stunning disrespect, and a weird, chilling disinterest, in the sense that he really only brings it up to threaten Ron and Hermione and thus Harry-- yeah. But not actual, active glee. Woo! Watch me split that hair, baby!"

Ah, so you *admit* you're hairsplitting--well, that's all I really wanted. ;-) I interpret it as glee, I mean, he's *shouting* at Harry that "you backed the wrong horse!" and Ron/Hermione that "you'll be next!" Chilling is indeed the right word for it...especially if JKR begins developing the Hitler's Europe parallels any more deeply than she already has. I look forward to reading many, many posts from the hardcore Draco apologists about the *sensitive* Pureblood junior SS kommandant...kidding, just kidding. Well, no I'm not.

That said, I'll read anything that's good, including Harry/Draco--but please, a little *realism* of character here. (Wonderful, now I'm in a weird mental place where Harry is Clarissa Harlowe and Draco is Lovelace...the scariest part of all being, it might actually work.)

"Dudley/Harry, anyone? Come on, it's perfect. You've got the snotty kid for Harry's love to redeem, plus since they're cousins it's kinda got that twincest edge. Let's go, people, this could be the next big thing!"

[backs slowly away, laughing nervously and clutching Sirius and Harry poseable action figures protectively to bosom] Oh, shit, the mental pictures. The pain. The itching and burning. You are *very* mean.

And don't you be dissin' my twincest, neither--I have *tried* to write Fred and George without them sounding like an old married couple, and it is absolutely one hundred percent impossible. Huzzah! ;-)

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Bullying-- no, not so great a sin. If Harry held a grudge against everyone who snubbed him at one point or another (Gryffindors in book one when he loses them all those points, Hufflepuffs in two and four, even *Ron* in book four) he'd just be a giant seething ball of hate.

Exactly. Plus, I don't think Harry really suffered that much from Draco's bullying. It seems more annoying than really hurtful, most of the time. I think he was much more hurt by Ron in book four.

But the racism, the classism, the taunting Ron because he's poor-- those are the things that make me want to take a sledgehammer to Draco's mindset, shake him up a bit and drag him down about a thousand miles of bad road before I set him up with Harry. Not because I think Draco's secretly crying on the inside, but...

I do think a lot of the racism and classism have to do with his education. When you've been told all your life that you're better than others becuase you're pureblood and rich, it's not easy to accept that maybe you're just like anyone else. Especially when you're 14.

That doesn't make it okay, but it is a sort of explanation.

Also, Harry's not exactly unprejudiced himself. He just accepts other people's generalisations about the Slytherin at face value.

(Also, at this point, I really don't see glee in Draco after Cedric's death. Stunning disrespect, and a weird, chilling disinterest, in the sense that he really only brings it up to threaten Ron and Hermione and thus Harry-- yeah. But not actual, active glee.

I see glee because he (Draco) is turning out to be 'right'. Harry's chosen the losing side, and he'll be sorry for resufing Draco's friendship. I see more wounded pride ("How dare that Muggle-lover refuse an offer of freindsship of a Malfoy?") than glee about a person's death.

Dudley/Harry, anyone?

That's where I was trying not to go. :p

[orangekoi.livejournal.com]

Eh, this is why I've stayed out of such internet fandom for the past couple of years. I'm easily drained, and the call for "Yeah, fuck you, too!"s grew excessive.

[orangekoi.livejournal.com]

Past couple of /months/. Months. Ppsht. Whoops.

Yeah.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

The Holier-Than-Thou people are getting on my nerves something bad. There's times I want to go break something. Like a wall. WITH THEIR HEADS!

I'm pissed off. Ignore me.

[meimi.livejournal.com]

All things aside, I think the name of the group should have warned you ahead of time. ^_~ HPForGrownUps? *sniggers* I'm 23 and I'm not -grown up-. Haha!

Have yet to read the HP books, the first one is sitting on my night stand and gathering dust. ~_~ I have no time to read... I need to finish fics. So really, I have no thoughts on Draco's character though I did sorta like what I saw in Silver's fics but somehow I get the feeling he's not all that in the books. Such a shame.

^_~ Anyway, I'd join your friends list but I don't think I fit in there anywhere...

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know, I didn't like that part either, but the list came reccomended. :/

And hey, you can just be in the general group. Whetever.