World politics, and racism in fandom.

[bubosquared]

So, yeah, the Israel-Palestina conflict is still in full force, and now there's riots in Northern Ireland again. Sigh.

Dear people sitting next to me on the train,

I understand you feel the need to sprout of your opinions on world politics. I understand that most people don't have the inclination, time, or willingness to make the effort, to read up on the often incredibly long historical background of these conflict. I am a history freak, and a research nut, and have been brought up to research and back up my arguments, especially in politics.

However. If you're not going to even bother to read the fucking newspaper and form an opinion that is not a blanket statement about either of the sides in these conflicts, if you're going to sit there and say that the IRA should turn in all their weapons without any guarantee of NI rejoining the Irish Republic (which, btw, is why they took up arms again in the late sixties in the first place -- the British governement had promised to work towards re-unifying them and then did zip for fourty years!), that the Palestinians should just should disarm, shut up, and move out of Israel (disregarding the fact that it was originally their fucking country, and that Sharon has been deliberately and knowingly violating just about every treaty his predecessors worked on), if you then ask me what I think about it, then I'm going to tell you. And I'm going to use lots of four-syllable words; I'm going to be careful and precise and rational in what I'm saying, and I'm going to look at both sides of the story.

And if you don't like that, you can go stuff yourself, instead of giving me that "stupid chit, what do you know about it?" look.

Sincerely,

Furious.

Also! Interesting discussion to be had here. Go. Read. Now! I'll wait.

Okay, if you're back, I'd like to just add my plea for non-white slash characters to witchqueen's. I know, I know, I'm telling you to do as I say, not as I do, here. But due to the nature of my fandoms, it's hard to even find an non-white person to slash, much as I'd want to. Because I love interracial slash. It's a kink, for the visual of contrasting skin.

(Aside: I often worry if my non-white characters come off as "token blacks/asians" in my non-fanfic stories. I don't mean for them to be. I don't sit down and think "Hm, I need a non-white character," just like I don't sit down and think "Hm, I need another female," because my characters just come to me as they are. And often, they're not white. I didn't figure out until halfway through Here and Now that Jesse's Asian, so it doesn't feel "token non-white"ish to me, but. Blah.)

Anyhat. For those of you looking for suggestions:

The Crying Game -- Jody/Fergus.

Star Wars -- Lando Calrissian/Han Solo. (Please, people, for the love of god, they vibed so hard I vibed off the sofa!) QG/Mace.

Red Dwarf -- Lister/Rimmer. (ONSCREEN KISS! How easy must it get?)

Space: Above and Beyond -- Paul Wang/Elroy EL. Because, woa. Also, Vanessa Damphousse/Shane Vansen. Sigh. My f/f slash OTP!

RPS: Justin/Nelly. Eminem/Dr Dre. (Dude, that's almost canon!). Dre/Snoop Dogg! (Would pay for this.) And someone ought to slash Coolio. (This could also fall under the S:AaB heading, since he played a guest role in that.)

Or, you know. Suggest a bunny, and I might write it. Lord knows one more won't make a difference.

Comments

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Well, you know, weapons (including those wielded by the state) should be turned in, because explosions and killing are generally bad, but there's the part where most of the people born and living in N.I. want to remain part of the UK. It's an interesting question: is one person's citizenship and vote lesser than another person's, because their ancestors came by that citizenship by immoral means? What, if anything, does that mean for the USA, for example? How far back do you take it? For the UK, the Normans? The Vikings? The Saxons? How does that relate to the odiousness of anti-immigration arguments based on "blood belonging"?

It's a really, really complex area, and, well, I certainly don't know what I think. Apart from that it's more complex than it's often portrayed to be.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Well, you know, weapons (including those wielded by the state) should be turned in, because explosions and killing are generally bad,

Well, and I admit this goes more for the Palestina thing than for the NI thing, but why should one side turn in their weapons and the other not? :/

but there's the part where most of the people born and living in N.I. want to remain part of the UK. It's an interesting question: is one person's citizenship and vote lesser than another person's, because their ancestors came by that citizenship by immoral means?

Ah, but the thing is, back in 1916, the counties of NI were created deliberately so that the Loyalists would always be in the majority in govt, even though they weren't always getting the majority of the votes.

The reason the Protestants were Loyalists (generalisation, I know, but work with me, here) is that they were, back then, afraid of repercussions when all of Ireland would be independent. Granted, I can completely understand that -- although I do have to think 'Well, you should've thought of that before you oppressed and poverised the Catholics, ya bints.'

So, 1916, the south of Ireland became independent, and the county of Ulster was created -- as I said above, specifically designed so that the Protestants/Loyalists would be in the vast majority in govt.

Fast forward fifty years, and nothing has changed. In the mid-sixties, Catholics were still the "working class", and Protestants were the businesspeople, the bosses, and running "Ulster". So people were already, rightfully, imo, unhappy and discontent and angry towards the "ruling class", and then there was the big blow-up with the march in honour of the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising (can't remember details, can look them up in my book when I get home tomorrow, if you want), and then things just got ... horribly out of hand, to claim the understatement of the year.

Of course I don't agree with the killing of civilians by the IRA, but I also don't agree with the shoot-to-kill-ask-questions-later tactics of the UK Army (not sure if that is still in effect), and don't even get me started on the hunger strike thing.

Basically, ... yeah, I tend to lean slightly to the side of the IRA in this, because both sides have done things I'm completely appalled at, but I always tend to hold that against an "official governement" more than against a "terrorist organisation", especially since the whole demand for disarming is based, presumable, on the fact that the UK govt is an "official govt" and therefore has more rights than the IRA. Well, I say, with those rights come responsability.

(Of course, that goes the other way, too. If the republicans want me to think they ought to be in charge of NI, let them prove it by acting like a regulated police/army force.)

Um, that was long and rambling, and I do apologise. It's just that I've been immersed in IRA research and shit lately, and I like to talk politics. :)

It's a really, really complex area, and, well, I certainly don't know what I think. Apart from that it's more complex than it's often portrayed to be.

That is certainly true, even in Europe. (Disclaimer: Not being prejudiced, here, but I do get the impression that the media in America tend to all sway to one side of any given issue. Is that a correct impression?)

And see, you acknowledge it's not that simple, which means you're my favourite kind of person to discuss things like this with. :) Have had one too many encounter with the "There Is No Grey Zone" crowd in my days.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have to run away for the weekend right now, but can we make a date to resume this discussion?

Basically, I agree with everything you said there, but I'm still, I think, disagreeing overall about IRA sympathy. The situation there is just licensing psychopathic bigotry, and has little to do with belief, on any side.

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Sure thing! I'll be here on Monday, or whenever you wanna reply. :)

More interracial character pairing suggestions

[coneyislandbaby]

All have at least one non-white (usually black or Latino) character.

Remember The Titans (my pet needs to be slashed fandom, and all the interesting possibilities are interracial except for one and that involves a canon kiss)

Coach Boone/Coach Yoast
Gary/Julius
Petey/Ronnie

X-Men (movie)
Storm/Jean
Storm/Rogue

The Young & The Restless (soap opera)
Neil/Ryan

Passions (soap opera)
Luis/Hank
Miguel/Reese
Chad/Ethan
TC/Sam

ER
Benton/Carter (and I bet if Benton weren't black, their slash fandom would be of Mulder/Krycek proportion)

That's all I can think of offhand, but I'm sure there are others.

[meimi.livejournal.com]

Oh interracial... that's kinda hard to pull off in anime. Other than Utena, which is officially interracial anyway, there aren't many characters of different racial backgrounds. The Japanese tend to like drawing caucasians and that's it. Ah well.

On the other points, you're quite right. A lot of people don't care to see the other side (I'm guilty of this in certain areas) and I think this ignorance actually help these conflicts to keep going. And you're also right about the media, they only go one way with any specific subject and whatever that is is determined by the level of sensationalism and what is the most popular outlook of the masses at the time. I really dislike the news because of this.

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Oh interracial... that's kinda hard to pull off in anime. Other than Utena, which is officially interracial anyway, there aren't many characters of different racial backgrounds. The Japanese tend to like drawing caucasians and that's it. Ah well.

Yeah, that's something I've noticed, too. (I'm trying to draw the characters from my non-fanfic 'verse, but since one of them is asian, I'm having trouble finding examples. :/)

On the other points, you're quite right. A lot of people don't care to see the other side (I'm guilty of this in certain areas) and I think this ignorance actually help these conflicts to keep going. And you're also right about the media, they only go one way with any specific subject and whatever that is is determined by the level of sensationalism and what is the most popular outlook of the masses at the time. I really dislike the news because of this.

*nod* Even here, that's case, and our (popular) media tends to be much more varied in opinions than the ones in America (that I've seen) -- I think because, being a smaller country, you can only have so many newspaperes of one leaning (conservative/liberal/whatever) without saturating the market, so going along with the "mainstream" wouldn't actually get you more money. Er, </tangent> :)

hey hey

[misswhiplash63.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say that i love interracial/intercultural parings too and i really wanted to find Han/Lando but most of whats around seems to be Han/Luke, or tpm.

And i thought of another black actor who needs to be slashed (though i'm not sure who with) Tony Todd, who played Candyman and also guest starred in Star Trek TNG and Zena and a whole load of other stuff. He just has the most amazing sexual presence.

[sorchar.livejournal.com]

Tony Todd also played Jake Sisko all grown up on one ep of Deep Space Nine.

Question: Would you consider a pairing where one partner is of Arabic descent to be interracial? I'm thinking of Faisal/Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) and also of Dr. Bashir on DS9... I have a short series featuring him and an original character who's a white Bajoran.

There were a few Booker T./Shane McMahon stories in wrestlefic, when Shane was managing Booker T. I couldn't really see it - not because Booker's black, but I just didn't see the spark there. There was also some APA slash (Bradshaw's white, Faarooq's black) but again, I just couldn't see slashiness there - and I've been known to see slashiness in commercials. And K-Kwik (black)/Road Dogg (white), until Roadie got fired. *sighs* And I'm rambling now.

But anyway, I agree. Part of the problem is the low number of interesting characters who aren't white, though that's getting better.

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'd consider that to be interractial.:)

But anyway, I agree. Part of the problem is the low number of interesting characters who aren't white, though that's getting better.

Yeah, that's definitely one of the largest problems. There's not a lot of interracial slash pairings, but then, there's also not a lot of interracial het pairings, in fanfic or in canon.

(Randomly, I was re-reading a v.v.v. old rambling thing I wrote about E&S, one of my oldest non-fanfic stories, which has an interracial pairing in it, and about which actors I'd cast as them:

For the role of Darren 'Daz' Rye I'd cast ... I dunno. No-one actually struck me as 'being' Daz, yet. Goes to show how many black actors get a chance in Hollywood. 'Specially no young ones, and Daz was only 27 when he died.

I just thought that was weirdly approcpriate, to be re-finding that at this time. :/)

[punkrawkpyro.livejournal.com]

Hmm, interesting point. But most of the fandoms I'm in don't have black people there in the first place. Right now I'm really into RPS, especially punk rawk bands. Of which, few bands have black members. Something I've never been able to figure out, really. Although Sum41's Dave isn't really caucasian, he's really not black either. (And his nickname is "Brown Sound". Hey, at least he has a sense of humor about it.) And of course, U2, who aren't black either. (Adorable, but pale, little Irishmen. Fweee!)

The only fandom I can really think of any slash that had more than one race is Stargate SG-1. (A fandom I used to be MUCH more involved in. *sniffle* I miss it.) Last time I checked, that fandom had little slash, but there was some Daniel/Teal'c. (and Jack/Teal'c, I've heard, but I never saw it myself) Harder to find, but it was there. Meh, I should go check out that fandom again. Hmmm.

And I shall end my ramblings here.

Re:

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the absense of non-white characters to slash is definitely one of the reasons there's so little non-white slash, although not by far the only one. And it annoys me, because I like interracial slash, dammit! :(

And FTP is. Um. It's not quite a webpage, but it enables you to dl stuff, yeah. I can explain in more detail if necessary. :)