(no subject)

[bubosquared]

Somone linked to this thread, and um. Can I just say I don't get the (seemingly? apparent?) attitude that welfare is a waste and too many people take advantage of it.

Maybe it's just that I've always lived in Belgium, always known about social security, always known that if I needed it, there would be money enough for me to live on, if not luxuriously, as long as I would try to get myself out. (Because I don't know about the States, but over here, you do need to actually try to get a job to stay on welfare. Details available upon request. I have assimilated way too much of my mother's job. Argh!)

Maybe it's just that I'll always be a child of social workers, and raised with fairly socialist beliefs anbd principles, and always socialist/scommunist at heart. I just don't see anything wrong with the government helping those in need. That is, imo, one of the things they're there for, and I don't care in the least that I'm paying heavy taxes to support this and other government serivces in this country.

Yes, in an ideal world, people would pay this contribution voluntarily. But this isn't a perfect world, and I do think sometimes the government needs to do something that maybe people won't like, but which will benefit everyone in the end.

My parents have worked with poor, homeless and/or unemloyed people since I was a toddler. I have absorbed a scary amount of knowledge about the subject over the course of countless dinner conversations, if there is one thing I've learned, it's this:

You could be next.

There is no telling which way the wind will blow you. Looking at all the people my parents have worked with, there are people who never finished high school, but also people who have sometimes multiple university degrees. There are (some, very few) lazy bums, and people who just cannot get a break. Single mothers, single fathers, families, anyone.

You're not paying to support lazypeople taking advantage of the government. You're paying to help keep alive people who've hit a rough spot, just like others will be paying if and when you hit a rough spot. You're paying to fight generational poverty by giving kids a chance to study what they want, to find better-paying jobs, jobs they want, instead of jobs they're forced into because they need to start earning now. You're fighting poverty on the long run as well as the short run.

Comments

[meimi.livejournal.com]

*doesn't go to the length* I understand that bent though. A lot of people abuse welfare. No, they don't try for jobs... but the more kids they have the more money they get so guess whose ovens are always busy?

The thing is, I know several people who actually needed welfare for awhile but were denied. Somehow, they managed to get by. But, the fact that they were denied rankles when so many people are just taking the cash. No, they're not trying... at all. And that's the sad state of the USA.

[meimi.livejournal.com]

Uh... LINK... not length... Where the fuck did LENGTH come from? KAT!

[jurhael.livejournal.com]

http://zompist.com/welfare.html

[meimi.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, stuff like that is great and all. And they do have a point. But, seeing it up close and personal gives you a whole different opinion. So I still stand by what I said.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think welfare is bad. It's just got problems, that's all.

[jurhael.livejournal.com]

You may have seen a few cases "up close and personal", but his facts came from those who've ALSO seen welfare up close and personal, not to say that you're wrong. I'm well aware of those who simply leech off of it. However, Those who have many kids or squander it are actually in the minority and as for the former, they only get enough "extra" to starve on. The only reason why people think they're the majority is because THAT'S what gets in the media.

As for problems, indeed, welfare has problems. People will indeed take advantage of it, but the curent reforms do nothing to change the abusers nor will it stop those who keep having children. It just punishes those who do neither.

[sister-wolf.livejournal.com]

if there is one thing I've learned, it's this:

You could be next.

There is no telling which way the wind will blow you.

You're completely right. And I think most (all?) people who believe welfare is a waste of money have never been in the position of being truly desperate, of not having enough money to keep food on the table and a roof over head.

There are problems with our welfare system in the U.S., but they're problems that need to be reformed, not indications that the system is worthless.

[northern]

Living in Sweden here.

And yes, I totally second your opinion. I see taxes as a kind of insurance for when something happens to you and you need some help. I recently had a stress reaction (nervous breakdown, really), and I'm very thankful for a system that allows me to stay at home for 5 weeks and then work 50% for a month with not that much lower pay.

[sonatine.livejournal.com]

Arrrgh. As somebody who, like most college students not being supported by their parents in the US, is not that close from being on welfare, it always baffles me the mindset that allows people to think that welfare is solely for the lazy and the freeloaders. I can't cite where I found this, but one Republican's reason (among others) for cutting benefits was that in almost every welfare household, there is a color TV. ::shakes head:: (That would also lead into a rant about how fucking stupid the American government is, but I need to go to school soon ^.^)

I suppose it ties back into Weber's Protestant Ethics and the Spirit of Capitalism crap, as well as an indoctrination into the belief that if you work hard enough, you WILL make it. Of course, they never mention that on the end of this little Horatio Alger fantasy is tacked on "if you have the means and connections." It's such a bourgeousie/upper class mindset that's been imposed on the government it's ridiculous. And what I find worst is that some of those few who have scrabbled out of poverty and made something out of nothing (my parents) think that if they did it, anybody can. It's a bloody vicious cycle.

[jurhael.livejournal.com]

Absolutly. Do you notice that people who say that think that everyone is the SAME?

Doesn't that sound kind of...collectivist? Think about it...

[meimi.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's not. But you can't say there aren't freeloaders either. -_- Because I've known them. Welfare is good, but it's got problems. And when some people who really need it are denied but the freeloaders I knew were still abusing it, it just gives me a bad opinion.

I don't think welfare should be gotten rid of. I just think it needs serious reform.

[jurhael.livejournal.com]

It already HAS serious reform and it's done nothing but makes things worse.

Freeloaders are EVERYWHERE and they're not all poor.

The people who are denied probably make like 10c above the cut off line, which is ridiculous.

Also, those who oppose welfare want to ruin it in any way they can, which doesn't help any.

[gal-montag.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a person whose mother was once on welfare, I can say that people on welfare are most certainly not freeloaders. She busted her ass with three kids and no child support to get through school so she didn't have to be on the dole anymore. I find it unsettling that rich people can sit back in their palatial palaces that look down their noses at poor people like the poor are in poverty on purpouse, or because they like it.

I'm an American. (For people who might not already know that.) And I'm very cynical about the capitalist economic system. You can call what we have a democracy, but I'm beginning to wonder if we don't have more of a plutocracy. The rich rule society from facets of government, (like the multibillion dollar gun lobby) to the court system (Because why would we still be hearing about JonBenet Ramsey and not the little girl killed in a tenement at about the same time.) to even medical care (See also, John Q.).

(Because I don't know about the States, but over here, you do need to actually try to get a job to stay on welfare. Details available upon request. I have assimilated way too much of my mother's job. Argh!)

As far as I know, it's changed here so that you have to try to pull yourself up so you can function on your own. The trouble is that they don't give you the money to live on your own while you're doing that. My mom got maybe $400 a month for three kids and that wouldn't cover the rent on a one bedroom apartment. (That was before the "reform" so I don't know how things are now) The only way for it to be even worth getting was to keep having babies and getting more money. Thankfully my grandparents let us stay with them, or my mother *never* would have been able to get off.

[jurhael.livejournal.com]

See the above link I posted(I love zompist.com). It mentions that in current welfare reform, you're not allowed to have a job. But, like he said, "they do anyway".

[misswhiplash63.livejournal.com]

That place is a flame community not a debate community and all they do is spout shit and say that anyone who doesn't agree with them is ignorant and doesn't know what they're talking about. Ignore them.