I subscibed some three years ago, was rather active for six months, then went AWOL for about ten. I resubbed ... yeah, over a year and a half ago, actually, but I lurked all the time. :)
I have to admit...it was the RPS debate that finally got me to the point of joining.
I think the discussions are interesting, but I found the RPS one sadly fandom-limited. I suppose it is natural that people would think in the terms of their fandom when it comes to RPS, but I always want to say, there are more fandoms in the world than that one.
True. I've been thinking about that, and I think it's because musician fanfic is generally seen as something that 13 year old teenyboppers do. It isn't seen as a "valid" branch of fandom. (Not getting into hoow valid teenybopper-written fanfic is or isn't. To me, if it's written by fans about characters/"people" they like, it's fanfic, and valid.)
To most FPSers, musicianslash is only found at Nifty, actorslash is written by people confusing actors with their characters, and it's all pron without characterisation, plot or emotions.
I'm hoping that by bringing "real", plotted, characterised RPS into the spotlight more, that attitude'll change.
Hey, some of the best writing I've seen has been from self-admitted teenagers. Admittedly so has some of the worst, but I can say exactly the same thing for each and every age group.
Of course, some of the good stuff at Nifty is no different to good RPS (but try finding the gems among the rocks).
Actually, the attitude about confusing actors with their characters really gets to me. It's one of the main reasons I don't generally slash people whose characters I find slashy together. I mean, I don't actually find Joaquin and Casey's To Die For characters slashy. Slashable, maybe, but not actually slashy.
Being half-fair, to many genners, all slash is considered to be that way, RP or FP. Though I do think it's unfair of slashers to feel that way.
We can only hope.
You know, I keep wondering about something. I saw an interview Russell Crowe did on TV a few weeks ago, and he said that he hadn't given interviews to some magazines that tend to have articles about him all the time (and yes, I tend to buy them *g*). He knows the difference between fact and, to be polite, distortion (some of it is factual, or bought from other magazines or whatnot). I can't imagine him taking the slash seriously for one second. Of course, I don't know but I can extrapolate from what he said on the show.
The thing I hate most in discussions with the antis is how they will almost inevitably bring up the "delusional" argument. First of all, I never slashed Ben and Matt because their characters were slashy, I slashed them because they were slashy. And I know damn well that Metallica and NSync and whoever are not the way they appear in public, I know they're not actually touching each other in sexy ways. It's a fantasy. I can tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Writing RPS does not make me delusional.
And yes! That's one of the points I've been trying to make since the beginning. These are the 90's. (Well, the nullies or what're they called, now. :) Back in the 70's, being "accused" of homosexuality was terrible, a stigma. These days, discounting a few rare exceptions, it's just shrugged off. People joke about it. (Matt and Ben, I believe George Clooney and Mark Wahlber, too, ...)
Also, fanfic in general is just acknowledged and accepted much more widely than it was back then. In short, people don't give a shit. The public just sees us as weirdoes, and if the public doesn't care, chances are celebrities won't care, either.
Unless they're Tom Cruise. But who'd want to slash him, anyway?
Exactly. I want to scream when someone calls me delusional for that reason. Other reasons, maybe, but not that one *g*.
I do often bring up the Joaquin/Casey thing because so many people say, why not just slash the characters (which gets the predictable scream from me), and it's an example of why I personally couldn't just slash the characters.
And of course Metallica or NSync or BSBs (welcome to Kevin's harem *g*) aren't being sexy. But we can choose to see it that way if we like to.
It's like taking the Russell/Joaquin Oscar kiss seriously. I mean, I love it, but I know darn well that it's really that Joaquin and Russell are secure enough in themselves to not be afraid of the consequences. I actually like the idea of men being able to kiss affectionately the way women can, without it necessarily meaning anything sexual.
And yes, George and Mark have joked about it. They're almost cliched, which is kind of cute. If only I found George slashable, but I just don't.
And Matt and Ben...I just saw this American show Ben did, Inside The Actors' Studio, and they do joke about it. It's adorable, but in no way meant to be serious.
I agree. And hey, we are weirdoes, but no more than many other people. And at least we're the harmless kind *g*.
Ew. I certainly wouldn't want to slash him. He's just gone way down in my estimation.
I would love it if the Nicole/Robbie rumours were true. I think they'd make a great couple. Though from what I've heard it's at best early stages and much more likely to be friendship.
But can't you just imagine Tom's face? Robbie's so much more...well...than he is.
Yeah, because the whole "delusional" argument is really based on the assumption (sp?) that we take slashiness of character and project it on the actors (supposedly because we're either delusional or not talented enough to slash a movie/tv show, which has a much stricter canon than rps), which reallly isn't the case.
As for the kissing, that's really muchly culurally determined. For example, when I went clubbing last week, I saw two guys kissing (cheeck) in greeting. Nobody batted an eye, because that sort of thing is rather normal here. (Yeah, I'm a lucky bitch who's going to miss this terribly when she emigrates. :)
(Oh, and later, there were these four blokes who kept being goofy and adorable and touchy-feely and dancing together and while this is less "normal" and I did squee over it, people were just amused at them, not disgusted, not speculating or whatnot.)
And I agree, I wish it was more socially acceptable for men to express their emotions, especially physically -- to anyone, be they male or female. Because it's not just the guy/guy thing; as soon as a guy touches a woman for longer than a few seconds, there's speculations.
But really, we've come a long way, and at least men are able to joke around about it now. It's become a sort of ... self-relativating thing, if that makes sense. No longer a Horrible Rumour, but Oh Yeah, That Amusing Rumour.
I have nothing say re: Robbie, other than that he and Mark are Next Up on my List Of Things To Write. Le sigh.
You know, I think that although there's some leeway, there is actually stricter adherence to canon in RPS (with the obvious exceptions like RL gfs/bfs) than there is in FPS. Of course, one of my fave things about RPS is the constantly changing nature of the canon. It's like a less annoying soap opera (annoying in the sense that canon twists way too fast to write, in the case of soaps). And I think that it takes more talent to write RPS characters well than it does to write (some) FPS characters well.
Well, yes, but Belgium is similar to France in that aspect. Well, Europe, really, but France is the stereotype.
And that sounds too adorable. I have to settle for straight bois acting slashily (which is it's own brand of fun).
Oh, yes. I agree.
I like that. That Amusing Rumour.
And I can't wait for more Robbie slash.
Oooh! I joined a Joey slash list (me, desperate? Yes!) and there was another Robbie/Joey fic. Rather cute little PWP. Would you like a copy emailed?
And I'm very proud of myself. I have finally figured out who JC and Chris are. I didn't know this before tonight. I just knew there was this terribly attractive man (who reminds me of Chris Isaak) who was one or the other (being that I already knew Joey, Justin and Lance), and he turned out to be JC. So Chris is the one who (at least at the time I have them on tape) with the goatee.
Yep, yep, yep. There is a point in there, of course. RPS canon gives us much more leeway within the canon, so there's much less of a need to break out of it. But to imply that this makes us worse writers? It's especially confusing because I've heard some of these people say fanfic is easier than original because you have a defined character to work with. In RPS, there's less definition to the character, so there's more we need to fill in, so wouldn't that make it harder to write, in their logic?
Since when did their logic make any sense whatsoever?
You know, I think that's a big part of the problem. Their arguments aren't generally logical. And it's not even that I disagree, it's that the arguments make no sense (most of the time).
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Neither of us say much, though. :) I don't think I'd ever seen you post before.
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And I just got around to joining a little while ago
I think the discussions are interesting, but I found the RPS one sadly fandom-limited. I suppose it is natural that people would think in the terms of their fandom when it comes to RPS, but I always want to say, there are more fandoms in the world than that one.
But that might just be me...
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
To most FPSers, musicianslash is only found at Nifty, actorslash is written by people confusing actors with their characters, and it's all pron without characterisation, plot or emotions.
I'm hoping that by bringing "real", plotted, characterised RPS into the spotlight more, that attitude'll change.
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
Of course, some of the good stuff at Nifty is no different to good RPS (but try finding the gems among the rocks).
Actually, the attitude about confusing actors with their characters really gets to me. It's one of the main reasons I don't generally slash people whose characters I find slashy together. I mean, I don't actually find Joaquin and Casey's To Die For characters slashy. Slashable, maybe, but not actually slashy.
Being half-fair, to many genners, all slash is considered to be that way, RP or FP. Though I do think it's unfair of slashers to feel that way.
We can only hope.
You know, I keep wondering about something. I saw an interview Russell Crowe did on TV a few weeks ago, and he said that he hadn't given interviews to some magazines that tend to have articles about him all the time (and yes, I tend to buy them *g*). He knows the difference between fact and, to be polite, distortion (some of it is factual, or bought from other magazines or whatnot). I can't imagine him taking the slash seriously for one second. Of course, I don't know but I can extrapolate from what he said on the show.
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
And yes! That's one of the points I've been trying to make since the beginning. These are the 90's. (Well, the nullies or what're they called, now. :) Back in the 70's, being "accused" of homosexuality was terrible, a stigma. These days, discounting a few rare exceptions, it's just shrugged off. People joke about it. (Matt and Ben, I believe George Clooney and Mark Wahlber, too, ...)
Also, fanfic in general is just acknowledged and accepted much more widely than it was back then. In short, people don't give a shit. The public just sees us as weirdoes, and if the public doesn't care, chances are celebrities won't care, either.
Unless they're Tom Cruise. But who'd want to slash him, anyway?
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
I do often bring up the Joaquin/Casey thing because so many people say, why not just slash the characters (which gets the predictable scream from me), and it's an example of why I personally couldn't just slash the characters.
And of course Metallica or NSync or BSBs (welcome to Kevin's harem *g*) aren't being sexy. But we can choose to see it that way if we like to.
It's like taking the Russell/Joaquin Oscar kiss seriously. I mean, I love it, but I know darn well that it's really that Joaquin and Russell are secure enough in themselves to not be afraid of the consequences. I actually like the idea of men being able to kiss affectionately the way women can, without it necessarily meaning anything sexual.
And yes, George and Mark have joked about it. They're almost cliched, which is kind of cute. If only I found George slashable, but I just don't.
And Matt and Ben...I just saw this American show Ben did, Inside The Actors' Studio, and they do joke about it. It's adorable, but in no way meant to be serious.
I agree. And hey, we are weirdoes, but no more than many other people. And at least we're the harmless kind *g*.
Ew. I certainly wouldn't want to slash him. He's just gone way down in my estimation.
I would love it if the Nicole/Robbie rumours were true. I think they'd make a great couple. Though from what I've heard it's at best early stages and much more likely to be friendship.
But can't you just imagine Tom's face? Robbie's so much more...well...than he is.
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
As for the kissing, that's really muchly culurally determined. For example, when I went clubbing last week, I saw two guys kissing (cheeck) in greeting. Nobody batted an eye, because that sort of thing is rather normal here. (Yeah, I'm a lucky bitch who's going to miss this terribly when she emigrates. :)
(Oh, and later, there were these four blokes who kept being goofy and adorable and touchy-feely and dancing together and while this is less "normal" and I did squee over it, people were just amused at them, not disgusted, not speculating or whatnot.)
And I agree, I wish it was more socially acceptable for men to express their emotions, especially physically -- to anyone, be they male or female. Because it's not just the guy/guy thing; as soon as a guy touches a woman for longer than a few seconds, there's speculations.
But really, we've come a long way, and at least men are able to joke around about it now. It's become a sort of ... self-relativating thing, if that makes sense. No longer a Horrible Rumour, but Oh Yeah, That Amusing Rumour.
I have nothing say re: Robbie, other than that he and Mark are Next Up on my List Of Things To Write. Le sigh.
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
Well, yes, but Belgium is similar to France in that aspect. Well, Europe, really, but France is the stereotype.
And that sounds too adorable. I have to settle for straight bois acting slashily (which is it's own brand of fun).
Oh, yes. I agree.
I like that. That Amusing Rumour.
And I can't wait for more Robbie slash.
Oooh! I joined a Joey slash list (me, desperate? Yes!) and there was another Robbie/Joey fic. Rather cute little PWP. Would you like a copy emailed?
And I'm very proud of myself. I have finally figured out who JC and Chris are. I didn't know this before tonight. I just knew there was this terribly attractive man (who reminds me of Chris Isaak) who was one or the other (being that I already knew Joey, Justin and Lance), and he turned out to be JC. So Chris is the one who (at least at the time I have them on tape) with the goatee.
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
You know, I think that's a big part of the problem. Their arguments aren't generally logical. And it's not even that I disagree, it's that the arguments make no sense (most of the time).
I think.
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
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Re: And I just got around to joining a little while ago
But once in a while, you can and do reach someone. Even someone you never expected to in a million years.
I know, because it happened for me. And all I did was explain calmly and rationally my position on RPS.
It's thoughts like that that keep me from exploding too much over this stuff.