Ze clique thing

[bubosquared]

I'm just kinda baffled, you know? It's just ... whatever.

This is fandom. People meet through a common interest. people connect. People become friends, and sometimes more. People form groups of friends. People do not say "Anything that's not written by us sucks." People are not, in general, exclusive.

If there is a hierarchy in any fandom, especially in puppyfandom, I didn't notice it. So either I'm dense, or people are letting themselves be intimidated by the way they percieve some authors' image.

I know whereof I speak, people. Like badbatz said, one tends to be too intimidated to feedback Famous Authors (or people perceived as such). I know, I've been there. Shit, I've had a feedbacker saying she was afraid to fb before because I was such a famous author. Which, um, I'm not. Nor am I scary or intimidating or exclusive.

So. In conclusion. Fandom is not Junior High. Take a deep breath and a chance and find out of the authors you're accusing of clickishness actually are. If so, then you can complain. But now, you're just being Junior High-ish yourself.

Comments

[ex-verdandi713.livejournal.com]

Before I respond to this, I should note upfront that I am not in 'NSync or any other boyband-related fandom (as if you couldn't tell that from reading my LiveJournal, LOL), so my comments are meant as purely generalized fandom observations.

Disclaimer disclaimed, then...

"People form groups of friends. People do not say 'Anything that's not written by us sucks.' "

Well, actually they *did* very specifically say that in a fandom I was deeply involved in (Homicide), and said it so many times and with such self-congratulatory fervor that many talented people abandoned the field altogether. I can't quite bring myself to believe that's an utterly anomalous example, though I'm exceedingly happy if that is indeed the case.

"People are not, in general, exclusive."

[chokes] Er, excepting for the way they've behaved during the entire *history of humankind,* Sofie? Honestly. Or if you mean people are generally not exclusive when it comes to *fandom,* well...I suppose that explains why there are no invitation-only mailing lists, no invitation-only archives, no fanfic awards and no other earmarks of anything but small-d democracy reigning supreme in the world of fandom. (I'm not saying these things should not exist; I'm just saying that to say that their motive isn't at least partly exclusionary is to ignore the evidence.)

"Fandom is not Junior High."

Well, you're correct there. It's Hollywood without money--you have your bankable studio stars, you have your no-name bit players, you have your indie and character actors who aren't really known by face but get steady work. To say there *is* a hierarchy of sorts afoot in such a structure is simply to acknowledge the reality of how any endeavor which requires both talent *and* self-marketing ability to succeed (i.e. get that hit-counter "box office") tends to structure itself. You don't have to think there's a conspiracy of Jesus Fanficcer Superstars afoot to acknowledge that a totem pole does in fact exist. Some people with immense talent don't have the ability or desire to "market" themselves, so fewer people read them. Some people with no talent get great box office. Sometimes you have the happy marriage of talent with renown. It's just the way of things.

If you think this is a complaint about the fact that I put myself in that third category (vaguely known indie) as opposed to stardom, it's not. Would I like more feedback about my work than I actually get? Sure I would. Am I not getting it because of exclusivity or hierarchy or people who refuse to read anyone but their friends? I suppose that *could* be a factor, damned if I know, but it's probably more down to the fact that I write very slowly in very rare fandoms, post to very few lists and tend to ensnare myself in huge WIPs. While I don't believe in the cabal theory, I also don't believe that there's a level playing field in *any* fandom out there, and to jump en masse on people who acknowledge there is one strikes me as somewhat counterproductive.

Also, if fandom *isn't* junior high, whence the endless conflict between Metslash and Tallific? Just wondering.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Should, of course, have added my own discmailer: "Everything here is from my own experience, which does not include large fandoms and thus I am less likely to have encountered fandom splits, cliques, etc." :)

Er. Well. Like I said, I never saw people act like that. Have I just been lucky, or are people like that rather rare? Prolly a combination of both. (Also, despite the generalisation, I was mainly thinking of the specific people being whined about. Despite my issues with some of them's behaviour (aweful grammar, I know), I've never felt they were cliquish or exclusive of "If you're not one of us, you suck"-like. YMMV.)

Er, yes. In relation to fandom. *sheepish grin* And well ... I've to admit there's been times I thought about starting an 'elite' list for just 'good' fiction. But, and again this is the result of me generalising when i should've been specific, not many people (in my experience!) define 'good' as 'only that which is written by my specific group of friends'.

I didn't say there was no structure. I'm just saying that blaming the 'stars' for being where they are, and claiming that they're knowingly and deliberately putting themselves up there and abusing their position to get their friends and only their friends into stardom seems more than a bit unfair. They're only 'stars' because people see/treat them that way.

As for the Metallica thing ... Well. I think this is even beyond cliquishness -- prolly to the negative side. But. No one I know will dismiss a story out of hand because the author is on TF, although I admit I will, when an author falls victim to the dreaded "James-beats-Kirk-up-and-Kirk-fogives-him-because-he's-so-noble-and-loves-James" staple, groan and blame "TF-syndrome".