A rant ...

[bubosquared]

Twice in recent days, while talking to ruby_fruit, we've gone off on rants about Things We Want To See More Of (Or Even At All) In Books And Other Media. Specifically, what we want to see are "casually gay characters."

Honestly, I'm a little burnt out on Gay Lit lately. Not that I don't still love to read about boys loving boys and girls loving girls and either loving both, but I'm starting to feel a bit ... ghetto-ised, I suppose. It's not that I want Gay Lit to go away, it's that I want more gay characters in "mainstream" lit. And on TV. And in movies. And fuck, in songs, in advertising, in the street, in every part of everyday life. But I'll limit myself to books, and the general media to some extent, because if I get started on the rest I'll just never shut up.

As most of you will know, I pretty much read only fantasy and some science fiction (with a peppering of True Crime and nonfic when I'm feeling like reading brainless trash and brainfood, respectively). You'd think in these genres if not in any other genre, or in "mainstream" lit, you'd see more gay characters being generally accepted. Or even gay characters at all.

In fantasy, you have the opportunity to set up a society where same-sex relationships are accepted the way opposite-sex relationships are. Yet very, very few writers do this. Why? If nothing else, it's a perfect way to set your novel apart from the gazillion other fantasy tomes on the shelves. Because there are people out there, people like me, who will give anything a chance if it has two boys or two girls touching in sexy ways.

For once, I want to read a book in which there are queer characters other than the by-now-cliché effeminate gay mage or the lesbian mercenary (especially if she "turned gay" because of rape--HATE!). I want to see the macho mercenary fall in love with a bloke. I want to see the hero walk into a bar and get hit on by the waiter instead of the waitress, and not freak out. I don't care if he's straight and just politely turns him down, even, though it'd be even better if he flirted back, of course. I want to see the beautiful witch fall in love with the heroine rather than the hero. I want to see the kitchen boy go on a quest to prove himself worthy of his True Love, and have that True Love be the prince rather than the princess. I want to see a society where same-sex relationships are the norm, and procreation is the only reason for m/f sex, if it happens at all (turkey basters, anyone?)

Science Fiction is marginally better about this, but not by much. In most science fiction worlds, sexism (and, usually, racism) are things of the past, yet queer people are still not even acknowledged most of the time, and when they are, well. See above for the usual clichés. I'm tired of it. Show me the hero saving the guy instead of the girl, and falling in love with him. Show me the women settlers raising a child together. Hell, show me the people falling in love with aliens whose race has more than two genders, or no gender at all--though that's getting into genderqueer territory somewhat.

And once genre fiction gets with the program, let's start fixing "mainstream" lit. Let's start seeing queer characters in contemporary books, and let's start letting them have actual relationships. Let's start letting the protagonist have a gay or lesbian friend, and allow that friend to be more than just "the best friend". Let's start writing about queer characters, and have a plot beyond the main character's sexuality. One in ten people are queer, and that's not even counting the bisexuals, and a whole lot of us are out and proud, so let's start seeing that in books that are supposed to take place in the here and now. Let's start seeing an accurate picture of what (especially urban) life is actually like in this day and age.

I'd especially love to see more queer characters in YA novels that aren't coming-out stories. Not that I dislike those, and I'm sure they're a great help for a lot of queer teens, but not every queer person had to struggle first with themselves and then with their family and peers to come out as queer (I didn't), and putting queer characters in "straight"/"non-queer" YA novels may help make people, especially teenagers, realise that we are everywhere.

I'm sick and tired of being "accepted". I don't want to be "accepted", as if I'm some sort of embarrassing relative you'll put up with for the sake of blood ties but who you'd rather not be seen with in public. I want to be acknowledged as part of society. Because I am, and I've had it with being invisible to the media, with seeing queer people trotted out to show that look, aren't we progressive? I want to see "my kind" in books, on screen, in ads and in the street, and have no one bat an eye the way no one bats an eye at straight couples.

I'm here, I'm queer, and I refuse to be invisible any longer.

Comments

[karendreamer.livejournal.com]

Interesting thoughts. I agree with you. I've enjoyed reading fiction by gay authors. It shouldn't be only gay authors who can and do write good gay characters for books that aren't specifically about the gay characters. It will be wonderful when they are just characters in a story, just characters.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

*nod* If gay people can write straight characters, then the reverse should be true as well.

[i-amthecosmos.livejournal.com]

Yes to all the above.

And "Girl in Landscape" by Jonathon Lehman has genderqueered aliens and a (sort of tokenized) lesbian frontier couple. Actually, I bet you've read it already, it's damned good.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Haven't read it yet, but it's now on my List Of Books To Read, thanks!

[armistice.livejournal.com]

There was that episode of ST: TNG where they visited a world of people who didn't have genders, and Riker fell for one of them. Of course, he did fall for one of the ones that identified as "female" and had to keep all underground about it becuase people of that species were persecuted for identifying as a gender, but... It was something.

Also, it was a long time ago. Sigh.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Trek also doesn't have a very good track record with queer characters in general, at least as far as I'm concerned. They always make a huge-ass deal about it, and that just turns it into a PR thing, which, bleh.

This is why I like Babylon 5, because there's a lesbian relationship that's just there, it's part of the plot, and the problems arising from it are not because it's two women. And in one episode, two male characters go undercover as newlyweds, and it's played for laughs the same way it would've been if it'd been a man and a woman in the same situation. (I love JMS for this. LOVE!)

[dine.livejournal.com]

I totally and completely agree with your rant - there aren't enough characters who just happen to be gay in books, and while the coming out story is important and can be inspirational, there are tons of other topics to cover. Over the years, I've read a skillion books (mystery, SF, fantasy) and can probably come up with some recs for you - and if you can't find them locally, could send you some titles.

One author you might look for is R. M. Meluch - she wrote a handful of paperback SF novels in the 80s; they've not been reissued, though her first title in years (The Myriad) was just published in hardcover, so there's some hope. Of her older titles, I highly recommend Sovereign, Chicago Red and The Queen's Squadron, which all feature gay/bisexual characters in various (mostly) fucked-up relationships - but they're fucked up for various reasons, not because they're gay. Some of these are apparently available used in the UK - I checked ABEbooks and amazon.co.uk. The Myriad is the first in a new series, and one of the central characters is gay, although it's hard to tell where that's going to go - personally I'm hopeful that he and the (male) captain will end up together.

Although it doesn't appear to have been updated recently, the Lambda Sci-Fi Recommended Reading List might give you a few new titles/authors to check out. Again, if you find stuff you want but can't get locally, just holler and I'll locate a cheapish copy used and send it to you. http://www.lambdasf.org/lsf/books/recommend.html

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recs, I'll look into those and get back to you if I can't find them!

I think one of the reasons that the prevalence of the coming-out story bugs me is that it's not a universal experience for queer people, not anymore at least. I've known I was at least bi since I was twelve, and the most I've ever done is not explicitly come out and say "I like girls." I openly admitted to finding certain girls attractive, and if I'd actually dated in secondary school, I'd have had no second thoughts about saying that yeah, I have a girlfriend. (I still don't make grand announcements about my sexuality, still. If people can't figure out from my mentions of ex-girlfriends and the like that I'm a dyke, that's really more their problem than mine.) I never had to worry about what my parents would do when I came out, or my employer, or my classmates and friends, or whatnot. And maybe this is partially a cultural/generational thing, but I know a lot of other people who had the same experience.

Plus, and this is also something I'd like to see in comtemporary fiction, not all straight people simply assume they're straight by default. I know a lot of people who identify as gay, but who still considered the possibility that they might be at least somewhat queer, before deciding that no, straight here. Again, this may be different if you live in another culture or grew up in another generation, but still.

[starbrow.livejournal.com]

*seriously huge amounts of applause*

On that note, have you read Ursula K. Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness? Brilliant example of exactly what you're talking about.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

I haven't, even though I've read a lot of her short stories when I was in my early teens and people keep recommending the LHoD books to me. I really should get off my arse and get those, shouldn't I?

[wild-boys.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with what you say about 'acceptance.' 'Acceptance' and fucking 'tolerance,' I mean, what the fuck? And just, yes. *nods a lot*

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

"Tolerance" has actually started to leave a nasty aftertase in my mouth, these days. Tolerance is something to strive for when you're being prosecuted, beaten up, and oppressed, but it should never be the final goal. Ever.

[misachan.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to jump into your journal, but I feel compelled to rec.:) Have you read the Kushiel's Legacy series by Jacqueline Carey, or Fiona Patton's Living Flame series? Both involve universes where everyone is more or less assumed to be bi, and nobody so much as raises an eyebrow at gay relationships. Both series are wonderful.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Haven't yet, but thanks for the rec; I'll keep an eye out for it. And hey, never apologise for jumping in and reccing me books. ^_^

[renne.livejournal.com]

I'd especially love to see more queer characters in YA novels that aren't coming-out stories.

you know, i'm glad you said that. that whole paragraph, really. i'm currently working on an original fiction story that involves a couple of queer teens and i'd been thinking about the whole 'coming out' thing - i wasn't really interested in addressing it as it wasn't part of what i'd plotted - so i figured, ah fuck it, i just won't do it.

Because I am, and I've had it with being invisible to the media, with seeing queer people trotted out to show that look, aren't we progressive?

oh god yes. i really dislike the whole "look! there's queer shows on the television! queer eye! queer as folk! will & grace! wow! what are you complaining about?" attitude too. shows like those stereotype queer people like nothing else, imo. like you, i just want to see queer people as a regular, everyday part of the media that isn't sensationalised or even gets special attention drawn to - i just want queer people to be as everyday as straight people.

(elfy from jf ;))

Reposted to fix fucked-up HTML

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

so i figured, ah fuck it, i just won't do it.

Good for you! And also, I totally want to read that story once you're done with it.

shows like those stereotype queer people like nothing else, imo.

Exactly! It's like TPTB are under the impression that "Gay Man" = "good fashion sense, makes lots of catty remarks about people's decorating, like to hang out with women". Being a gay man means they kiss and have sex with other men? Surely not! Which isn't to say I don't like the Queer Eye blokes, because I do, I just want to see gay characters actually have kiss each other. Like on QaF, but not "banished" to their own show.

(And this is where I stop myself from going off on another rant about Marvel's treatment of its one openly gay superhero. Again.)

[thawrecka]

And all I have to say to this is, Oh, fuck yes.

Sometimes I just want to read fiction (albeit fantasy and sf) which reflects my experience and, let's face it, there's not much out there. More in horror, but still not much.

And, blergh to coming out stories. My coming out as bisexual was the biggest non-event in my life and coming out stories are boring and, anyway, who'd care about coming out when aliens are invading and blowing shit up?

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Exactly, on all of that. :D

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

*nods*

*too sick and out of breath to contribute, but nods*

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

*petpet* Get better, you!

[yaoipimp.livejournal.com]

@___@ This makes me glad I friended XD A big hell yes from over here x_X

*thinks* While not fantasy, the vampire chronicles by anne rice have a certain amount in the way of gay/bisexual characters, and it's not usually a selling point o_o Some Poppy Z Brite stuff too @_@; Sadly, it seems to be a selling point for at least one of those books (The main male character has a sexual relationship with another guy...who turns out to be his father o_O; Keep it in the family I guess XD). She did get a good couple in Steve and Ghost though, those two tend to lean towards friends that are probably going to become more sort of thing. Only she can't write a book about them, as much as she has apparently tried.

...*ends ramble* No idea if that fits in anywhere but XD Even if it is horror rather than fantasy x_X

Again, yes to everything above! Joy to rants!

And yes on the whole "coming out" thing x_X Some people just get a clue and that's that @_@;

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

This makes me glad I friended

Aw, shucks. Thanks!

I have issues with PZB that would take several days to get into, but yeah, I liked Steve and Ghost. Don't really read much horror anymore, though.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Have you ever read Clive Barker's Imagica? It's one of his fantasy novels and one of the main characters, Pie O Pah, is from a race that has a third sex that's neither male nor female, but can pass as either. The hero of the story falls in love with hir. Pie's not effeminate at all and when Gentle (the hero, who's definitely not effeminate, either) met hir, sie was passing as a man.

Anyway, it's one of my favorite Clive Barker novels, and not just for that. The story itself is brilliant. Very cool.

Um, can't think of anything else fantasy off the top of my head. Have you read At Swim, Two Boys? Historical fiction set in pre-WWI Ireland that's a love triangle between three men. One of my favorite books.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Barker's Coldheart Canyon is another good one with a gay protagonist.

[telesilla.livejournal.com]

Aside from a mighty "WORD!" I'd like to rec just about anything by Melissa Scott. She writes SF by herself and fantasy with her partner Lisa Barnett, and there are almost always gay/bi characters in societies that treat them simply as people in her/their books. Aside from her cyberpunk novel -- which was set in near future US -- the sexuality of her characters is always presented in a very matter of fact way without that "oh look at me the author being all subversive" thing.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, even more recs, fab! Thank you! :D

[sandrine]

I totally and wholeheartedly agree.

Fortunately, I've come across several mainstream novels with gay/bisexual characters where there sexuality wasn't a big issue - not in SF/Fantasy literature, though. But if you want to tackle crime novels, quite a lot of Val McDermid's books have gay characters in them (I think there's a series of novels where the protagonist is a lesbian detective), and then there's of course Louise Welsh's brilliant "The Cutting Room". Oh, right, and Bret Easton Ellis.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Hm, I may have a look at those, though I rarely if ever actually read non-genre anymore these days. But I do occassionally pick up a crime novel, so I may give those a whirl. Thanks!

[austen.livejournal.com]

I'm here, I'm queer, and I refuse to be invisible any longer.

Amen.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

^_^ (What, I don't get a Jean-Paul/Bobby icon? *pout*)

[ktnb]

I'd just like to add another "WORD!" (which kept trying to come out as WPSD, stupid fingers). I have a bunch of friends who have been trying to get me into House, and while I enjoyed all the beginning episodes I managed to download, it wasn't until like the fifth episode that I really got hooked - the story was that a group of babies in the hospital were all getting sick, and they focused mainly on two sets of parents, one straight couple, and one lesbian couple. And since the show is on Fox, I was just waiting for someone to say that the lesbians' baby was sick because it had two moms or something, but they didn't. The word lesbian never even came up. The mothers were just there like any other couple, and I realized that a program that's willing to show lesbians without showing lesbians is one that's worth watching.

[annlarimer.livejournal.com]

Samuel R. Delany. Stars In My Pockets Like Grains of Sand.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[apetslife.livejournal.com]

I want to see the macho mercenary fall in love with a bloke. I want to see the hero walk into a bar and get hit on by the waiter instead of the waitress, and not freak out. I don't care if he's straight and just politely turns him down, even, though it'd be even better if he flirted back, of course. I want to see the beautiful witch fall in love with the heroine rather than the hero. I want to see the kitchen boy go on a quest to prove himself worthy of his True Love, and have that True Love be the prince rather than the princess.

YES. Just, yes. When this happens--and it does, though it's rare--I cannot contain my jumping-up-and-down-in-joy. Yes yes yes. Thank you for that!

[apetslife.livejournal.com]

PS - Tanya Huff and Judith Tarr tend to be two who just slide the boy-and-girl-love in there without so much as a ripple. Which is why I love them with all my heart and soul!

[carelessmemory.livejournal.com]

Wordy McWord!!

The real world is full of queer people, and to be included in books, tv, and other media should just be a matter of course.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

*nod* Exactly. Unfortunately, considering that even non-white people still get shafted on this a lot of the time, I'm not seeing this happening for queer people any time soon.:/

[mousewrites.livejournal.com]

Wow, hon, lots of response to that!

Of course, I also agree with you. While searching around on Amazon's Listmania, I found a few lists that mention books in which the couple are m/m, but that's not nessicarily the focus of the story. If I can find it, one of them mentioned a book where the hero *does* fall for the prince...

Anyway, here's a link to one listmania list that mentions this stuff. Search on Yaoi (less helpful, but only like 25 hits) or slash (like 345 hits, and most of them music related) for more.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/1DRWABDIN4VWO/ref=cm_cnsr_lm_18/103-8680065-4370207

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

Wow, hon, lots of response to that!

I know! Clearly I need to do this ranting thing more often. :D

If I can find it, one of them mentioned a book where the hero *does* fall for the prince...

Dude, if you could find that one, I would love you forever!

And thanks for the link!

[inkdot.livejournal.com]

I got here via wild_boys's journal, and I just have to add my voice to the chorus of "Word!"s.

I think it's ludicrous to put up with being tolerated. Instead of gay culture being something that's on the fringes and just tolerated by the mainstream, it should just be normal, because it IS. In a way, all the "token gay character" bullshit just marginalises gays further. By now you'd think gay people in the media wouldn't be Gay People, but people who happen to also be gay.

So, in short, everything you said. :)

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

By now you'd think gay people in the media wouldn't be Gay People, but people who happen to also be gay.

You'd think so, but unfortunately, even non-white people often still get the Token treatment, so I'm not holding my breath for things to change significantly for queer people in the naer future. Sigh.

[deoridhe.livejournal.com]

Have you read Lynn Flwelling's Luck in the Shadows and Stalking Darkness? I picked them up because the story sounded interesting, but there are gay characters too. That's just not a very big deal, really.

[bubosquared.livejournal.com]

I have, and I did love them, including for that exact reason. Love!